Strut Brace

[VaSteve]

I know a number of you have various strut braces in the trunk. I was talking to Rennline today who has a new product coming out. It will be a brace that is flexible - you can later add monoballs or a third leg for a triangulated brace.

The salesguy told me that it only requires you to undo one bolt so it won't mess up the alignment adding to the cost. (I can't really see how from the photos they sent me...)

What are your experience with these things? Hard to install? Require an alignment afterwards? My Targa seemed a little squirrely on the track, I want to do something I can see instant improvements from.

[Mike W]

Steve,

Thanks for asking this question as I was looking at braces myself. I was looking at the Weltmeister and the RUF (depending on how much that would cost or if you are paying for the name). Let me know what you find out about the one you were looking at.

Anyway, I think this might be a pointless post as I have not answered the question, mearly... eh, I'm going to hit submit before I overthink it. :D

[VaSteve]

Here's the photos Rennline sent me:

http://www.dorkiphus.com/porsche/modules/albums/album66/Strut2.jpg
http://www.dorkiphus.com/porsche/modules/albums/album66/Strut1.jpg
http://www.dorkiphus.com/porsche/modules/albums/album66/Strut3.jpg
http://www.dorkiphus.com/porsche/modules/albums/album66/Strut4.jpg

[Noah]

The Jacquesman has struck again!

I have the previous generation setup, where the strut brace bolts directly to the top hats of the monoballs. It's an ideal setup, IMHO -- you want the brace tied into the tops of the struts, not the sheet metal that the strut perches bolt into.

I have a lot of Rennline stuff in my car because Rennline is about 15 mins. from my house in VT and Paul (the owner/designer) is a good friend. I've been meaning to call him...I'll ask about this and post what I find out tomorrow...

[cmartin]

I have a new in the box Weltmeister if you are interested.

[Trak Ratt]

Nice looking peace! I believe strut braces actually keep the tops from pulling away from each other not towards each other. We have one on the SC and it looks marvelous and effectively limits using the trunk for almost anything. Our SC coupe has poly bushes, Carrera sway bars, larger torsion bars, turbo tie rods, sport shocks and bigger wheels and tyres. Not real sure the brace helps but it does looks marvelous. Bet the $$ could buy a whole season of AutoX.

[Vicegrip]

The brace in the photo looks like it suffers no stigma of low cost and would be easy to bolt on. I bet that you would not be able to tell if it was installed or not by driving the car. There are many things you can spend some $ on that will improve the peformance of your car. The braces are high on ease of install but low return on money to peformance. They are also easy and inexpensive to make and do not need to be high tech.

[Chopper Dropper]

Go along with Kurt and Dave, they look good but I am sure you will not notice any difference.I ran my Targa without one pretty darn fast in red run group for years, never installed one and not really sure even at that stage if I would have noticed the difference. Spend your money on DE and Autocrosses. If you want to spend some extra discretionary cash, I will sell you a jar of apex cream that you just wipe on your tyres and gaurantee you will get closer to hitting the apex every turn. :lol:
Dirk

[Jazzbass]

Steve - I don't think the strut brace is going to give you much ROI. I don't have one on my car, and I'm sure it didn't make any difference on the track last weekend. My car wasn't squirelly at all outside of those times when it was driver-induced. :oops:

If you got some cash to spend and want to see some improvements on the track, I think you'd get more for your money with installing a chin spoiler than a strut brace. A corner balance and good alignment would be moeny well spent, too.

[Trak Ratt]

If you want to spend some extra discretionary cash, I will sell you a jar of apex cream that you just wipe on your tyres and gaurantee you will get closer to hitting the apex every turn. :lol:
Dirk

This sounds like great stuff :!:
How big is the jar? Will one jar last the whole season? When do you put it on, before or during the run? Do you only apply it to the outside tyres? How much $$ :?:
(Please don’t tell me it is rendered from any kind of animal parts that you personally harvested :wink: )

[markwemple]

Not to be baited by poor David, I wonder if new suspension bushings would be a better investment. MOst of our cars have more than a few miles on them and I have driven high milage cars that felt "transformed" by just a full set of new oem bushings. A lot more work but about the same $$.

[Vicegrip]

Apex cream is old school, you need turn in spray. It helps prevents premature turn in due to over excitement. As we know, early turn in leads to early apex and early apex leads to over excrement. :shock:

Mark is onto something. Having you car in as built condition is a great start and you would be suprised how well Porsches handle when set up stock and in top notch condition.

[BillJ]

kurt and dirk,

put me in for a case each of the cream and spray. need all the help i can get. come to think of it, i need an acme motor in a crate first....

[Chopper Dropper]

Kurt, you are encroaching on my sale here!! Sure it is available from Kurt in a spray, but does not work as well as if done by hand and rubbed lovingly into the tread and surface of all four tyres. It is recommended to put extra on the outside tyres for counterclockwise run tracks and on the inner tyres for clockwise run tracks. Jar size is a British pint, that is 20 Fluid ounces to colonials, and should last one track day. Cost is fairly high, as it is derived from the distilled secretions of the highland haggis as opposed to the more plentifull lowland haggis. I will be happy to discuss price and discounts directly. There may be some better discounts for those who have spent more than 30 events in green and 35 events in blue.
Dirk

[BillJ]

OH, its from haggis you say? Well then forget it. I only buy cruelty-free performance products.

On topic: The only way that these are truly effective is in triangulation. Also, curious compromise on the mounting location, as mounting the sheetmetal around the top points of the shocks would help, but not be the best solution. Certainly looks cool.

[targa911man]

I have the Weltmeister, and I think it increased the stiffness in the front end and responsiveness in steering, particularly in low speeds up to 50. I don't know how much of a difference it would make on the track, but I suspect that the "give" or stretch between the towers, without a brace, occurs so much more quickly at high speed with quicker steering input and weight shift that it is less noticeable, not that it doesn't occur. This doesn't mean that the brace doesn't help at high speed, just that I didn't do a comparison close enough in time to give a valid opinion. I think you would have to do a high-speed track run with no brace, then one with one installed to evaluate the effect of the brace at high speed.

[Mackpipes]

OH PLEASE! The spray and cream version is SO last season. Those "in the know" are using Lemon scented Apex Roll-on. It's manufactured in L.A. (Lower Alabama) from eye of newt and powdered bat nuts. Guranteed to stick like glue. :lol:

[Trak Ratt]

OH PLEASE! The spray and cream version is SO last season. Those "in the know" are using Lemon scented Apex Roll-on. It's manufactured in L.A. (Lower Alabama) from eye of newt and powdered bat nuts. Guranteed to stick like glue. :lol:

Pipes, what effect does “4 off” have on the roll on?

The total bush replacement option sounds like a good deal. $100 of so for all the bushes, lots of character building value added labor, couple hundred for realignment. I’d definitely go with the poly and lots of “special” grease :wink:

(Stand by for needless heckling!)
Steve; the color of your car has probably assured it not being driven much so chances are the suspension has settled anyway Good return on investment for someone recently “bitten” by the infamous “track bug” :wink:

[}{arlequin]

one pelicanite has a *brilliantly* designed strut brace. cheap. removable too. and i'm pretty sure it does its job damn well. now if you only knew someone w/ a welder.....

http://www.rallystuff.com/images/pcar_strutbrace1.jpg

[Vicegrip]

One mans personal opinion but it looks like overkill on materals and no triangulation. The large bar is mounted with gussets to sheet metal but the gussets are just more of the same. use far less materal and make an X with a bar across the top. I will post pix of a setup that is easly made from Home Depot stuff.

If there is enough intrest we can set up a Dorki strut brace build and install day. Or I can build for a fee to cover costs and time.

[William Miller]

The one I like was in Frankie's car (Froger911)
If I recall correctly it was sort of an x design and had a plate that rested on the flat spot in front of the smugglers box. A pretty stiff area as below is the front wall of the snugglers box. It had sort of a turnbuckle adjustment simular to a tie rod. If I recall it bolted to the top of the struts themselves and the adjustment lengthened one or two of the arms to snug it in place.

I would think without the trangulation the cross bar alone may distribute some of the fex across to the other strut, with the triangulation it would probably almost eliminate the flex.

I'd really like to see Kurt's utilitarian strut brace!

Froger911 if your out there, can you get us a picture? Maybe even a name off the brace?

[}{arlequin]

I believe the benefits will not even be noticed on a car w/ a stock suspension with street, squirmy tires. There's too much movement potential w/in such a suspension to notice a degree of change in shock movement. With a stiffer, not as compliant suspension and sticky rubber, it's a different story.

[Spike]

Steve, I tend to agree with the recommendation for getting a good alignment (and maybe adjust height). Bushings are probably a good idea on our oldre cars, but when I replaced mine I noticed there really had not been that much settling - I still replaced them, though.

You may want to check your tires if you were feeling squirmy on the track. You know it could be as simple as setting a different air pressure in your front and rear.

I noticed during our early run Saturday, by the end of the run my car was feeling 'loose' or 'nervous' - making me nervous. I lowered the front and rear pressure to get into the lower mid thirty's and the car felt much more stable for the rest of the weekend...

If you do want help with the bar, the bushings, etc. Give me a shout. I'll be glad to help. I just did the same last Summer so my memory is pretty fresh on the process.

[VaSteve]

Wow. Thanks for all the valueable information. Looks like the bushings are the way to go. Does it need to be realigned when I'm done? If so, I might as well do the turbo tie rods, some new shox and lower while I'm at it. What else?

I guess "squirrly" is a relative term. Compared to my Civic, it's rock solid :!: Probably more driver than car in this case.


(Stand by for needless heckling!)
Steve; the color of your car has probably assured it not being driven much so chances are the suspension has settled anyway

Gerade weil es braun ist, bedeutet nicht, daß es langsam ist.
:P

[Parenn911]

Wow. Thanks for all the valueable information. Looks like the bushings are the way to go. Does it need to be realigned when I'm done? If so, I might as well do the turbo tie rods, some new shox and lower while I'm at it. What else?

Yes, do all that first then get it aligned. Your car will feel completely different IMO. :D

[Trak Ratt]

Gerade weil es braun ist, bedeutet nicht, daß es langsam ist.
:P

Sorry, greek to me “spill boy”. These things aught to come with subtitles :wink:

[Jase007]

Just an idea:

"Squirrely" is definitely subjective (I use it all the time too). It could be as simple as less weight over the front wheels as you burn off fuel. In my track cars that get about 5mpg racing ... I can loose (and do) 20 X 6.2lbs = 124lbs (8 X 6.2 = 49.6lbs in the tub) in an hours driving. Unless you went crazy and installed in-cockpit adjustable sways, no real way to compensate [b/c you can't hit the pits for a suspension adjustment NASCAR style :lol: ].

I would guess that 4 X 25 minute sessions would burn up some gas in your car and decrease the weight over the F wheels. Less weight up F in an already R weight biased car = oversteer. So, this would apply if the car felt loose at the end of the day. You mention it felt loose at the end of the 1st morning session ...did you go from cold to warmer, no sun to sun on the track, moderate style to aggressive? Lots of reasons for it to go loose.

FWIW

Jase

PS: I have the Weltmeister "Cambermeister" on my Targa and after installing it I noticed measurable increases in cowl shake when the top was off.