2015 Garden

[cmartin]

I'm getting sick of winter and thinking spring. Looking to improve my veggy production from last year I'm thinking about starting more seeds this year. Anyone into grow lights, starting flats, heating mats... ?

I'm not into serious production but like to cook with fresh stuff and enjoy time in the dirt. Any thoughts on a grow light, heater vs a small greenhouse? Temps are too cool for a while but I like the simplicity of a cold frame type setup to get some seeds going. On the other hand, a grow light, small heater, a dome and/or a seed starter kit seems pretty simple.

[Cliff Claven]

my plan: start seeds inside under a light.

[Charlie Stylianos]

For indoor seed starting during the cold months, I can tell you what I've done the last couple years that has worked out quite well.

I built a PVC grow light stand (https://jeffevraets.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/img_60781.jpg)that holds four 4' florescent fixtures with pulleys/cleats that can raise/lower each fixture as needed. Bulbs are one cool and one warm white bulb per fixture. Standard mechanical timer(s) (http://images.lowes.com/product/converted/054732/054732819096.jpg) work well. Keep the lights within 1"-2" from top of seedlings. The closer the better and it won't hurt if they grow up into the lights. They'll need at least 12 hours daily.

For heating I built this (http://www.vegetablegardener.com/item/11658/diy-heat-mat-speeds-seed-starting). Make sure to use incandescent rope lights. LED is wasted time;) I later found a slide warmer at work collecting dust that I've been using since. Both work well. I use a reptile cage thermostat with probe in the soil to turn the "warmers" on/off as needed. Germination temperature should be listed on seed packets. A few of these (http://www.centralrestaurant.com/Antimicrobial-Dial-Thermometer-0-degrees-F-to-220-degrees-F-Range-c177p9846.html?gclid=CPiN_Jy02sMCFcQbgQodNLYA9g)in the soil are helpful. Start peppers now! They germinate and grow slow. Tomatoes and other veggies can wait till March/April or even later. No need for light during germination. Just keep the soil warm and moist. Saran wrap over the cups help, or wrap then in a moist towel and place in a Ziploc. I use 3-oz plastic cups for germination and small seedlings. Graduate/transplant them to 16-0z cups as needed.

Don't forget fans to simulate wind. It'll help beef up the stalks and make some stout seedlings, seriously. I keep them plugged in/timed with the lights. Change orientation often.

I got you, man....what else?;)

[Der ABT]

actually LEDs have come a long way lately, plenty of cheap grow fixtures out there that do great (generally red/purple for the correct spectrum) Evergrow is a really cheap company outta china but alot of people just buy them and rebrand as their own.

i have a few over one of my coral tanks and have been pleased, easy to fix/swap out.....though i have not used them for plants, i know several that do for tomatoes etc in our fish forum.

Cold boxes are great, my inlaws have one thats done REALLY well all winter so far

otherwise great suggestions above.

[BlackTalon]

We just put seeds in good potting soil in trays set on a table in front of a set of double doors. If it gets decent light during the day you really don't need to add supplemental lighting, but if you do not have a place for the trays that gets good light then go w/ fixtures. The wife usually puts several seeds in each cup, then once they start spouting she culls the wimpier ones. As the spouts grow a bit they get moved from trays to bigger cups; at this point only the strongest are kept. Once the weather improves a bit (usually March) the sprouts get moved outside for a couple hours each day.

Interesting concept adding wind, Charlie. Sounds beneficial if you cannot move the plants outside for a bit during the day (i.e., if you do not telecommute).

[jbailey930]

Charlie got it^^^ but Cliff has basic plan! Wifey is a 'master gardener' and has been doing this a few years now for Loudoun county and our place. As you get closer to planting time, you have to harden the seedlings- expose them to outdoor temps on your deck, patio, garage, etc.

[cmartin]

Great info, thanks. I'm trying to find the balance off not too much time but with good results. The last thing I need is another time suck but I do want to take my garden up a level.

Charlie - that's exactly the type of thing I'm been looking at. I have a heater for my outside cat that gets to ~100f and might work great. I need to put together a better plan/schedule so I can time this right. I want to try a few oddball tomatoes and then the usual squash, beans, peppers (made some great stuffed peppers last summer), maybe some corn, then try some fruit. Lots to think about. I especially want to up the herb and lettuce this year.

Cliff - I think you've figured out the circle of life

[BlackTalon]

No need to start lettuce indoor. Not needed for most herbs, either. Tomatoes, peppers and squash definitely need it though.

[cmartin]

I might try some lettuce indoors or from seed just to get a jump on the season, maybe a cold frame is a better idea there. I dont have a good spot to do this in the house so off to the garage it is. There are a few windows but not nearly enough light so the grow light is required.

Another challenge is always harvesting more than I feed to the animals. I wonder if the new cat will help with that.

[BlackTalon]

Definitely heat and lighting needed if in the garage.

We built some netting systems in the past, but sometimes the cost reaches what you would pay to just buy the vegetables at a farmers market... We mainly just cover the tomatoes, but we may need to protect strawberries as well.

When we had large single plot we installed a wire fence around the perimeter, secured to tall posts. Then I put a t-shaped frame in the center and strung heavy wire between the posts and in to the center frame. That provided support for a big netting system that covered the top and was tall enough to stand in, and it also came down the sides to the base of the wire fencing. I had two breaks in the wire fencing for access, the opening were only covered with netting.

It was a great system except the portion that extended under a tree canopy was always getting small branches dropping down on it. The initial cost was pretty high, but it served us for several years until the addition was built and forced us to relocate the plot. Now we have a half-dozen or so raised beds instead, and I need to figure out an affordable protection system for the coming season.

[N Fotouhi]

lettuce and tomatoes, ya right ;) :cool:

[Dr K]

actually LEDs have come a long way lately, plenty of cheap grow fixtures out there that do great (generally red/purple for the correct spectrum) Evergrow is a really cheap company outta china but alot of people just buy them and rebrand as their own.

Evan,
He's talking about rope lights as heat mats - so you need incandescent for the heat produced. The linked web site shows an inexpensive plan for that.

This is a really neat thread. Will need to consider!

[cmartin]

lettuce and tomatoes, ya right

like, totally man, no way

I have a few good size windows in the garage but it's nowhere near enough to grow anything but weak plants.

I also use raised beds. I used a netting contraption last year for the strawberries and while a PITA it worked. I was thinking about a fence around the entire area but that makes mowing a pain. Gotta pick the battles I guess.

I ordered a ton of seeds today now to figure what growing medium, flats or pots...

[cmartin]

Lots more to this seedling thing than I expected. Seeds are all going but I'm having some issues. From what I've read I think the seedlings are stressed because they are too cold, several stems are purplish and many are think and tall. I have the rope light and a pet bed heater under the trays but it's not cutting it. Grow light helps some but I need to up the temp to get things moving I think.

[cmartin]

Who has their plants in the ground? I have a few herbs and 1 tomato that I got from HD outside and hope to get at least some of my seedlings in this weekend. Something I havent figured out yet is how to product my plants from the animals. Netting is a PITA but might be the best way for now. I lost all my corn last year, something had a full belly.

[jbailey930]

slowly introduce your seedlings to outside conditions - this hardens them to full time in the ground. My wife takes the flats out for several hours a day and then back in at night. You really should wait until Mom's day to guard against frost damage.

[cmartin]

Good advice. I have 2 flats outside right now, what a great day. Being new to starting from seeds I think I'm going to put out a few plants now and more later. Similarly I hope to get some lettuce seeds in this weekend.

[Charlie Stylianos]

Something I havent figured out yet is how to product my plants from the animals.

What kind of animals? Deer are the worst and can munch down a whole garden in one eve. TALL fence (6'-8') slanted outward should do it. I had some deer getting into the old plot with a 4" fence and this seemed to do the trick the rest of the year.

NEW! - Scarecrow Motion Activated Sprinkler Test & Review: BEST Animal Deterrent? - YouTube

[BlackTalon]

Lettuces went in this past weekend. That's probably all we will be doing from seeds this year. And netting is key!

[cmartin]

I like it Charlie, cool idea. No deer that I know of but tons of birds and some squirrels and rabbits. I'm curious to see if the car will help in that area, who knows.

I hope to put in some lettuce every week or so think I might have multiple harvests until it gets too hot.

Another crazy idea of mine is to construct screens over some of the raised bed areas. In theory used a screened roof over a smaller area should be much simpler to deal with.

[BlackTalon]

You can make a PVC frame and drape netting across top and down sides. Depending on the size of the bed(s) you can make low ones you just lift off/ reset, or make tall ones that you leave and place and enter through a lap in netting pieces.

[Vicegrip]

What kind of animals? Deer are the worst and can munch down a whole garden in one eve. TALL fence (6'-8') slanted outward should do it. I had some deer getting into the old plot with a 4" fence and this seemed to do the trick the rest of the year.

NEW! - Scarecrow Motion Activated Sprinkler Test & Review: BEST Animal Deterrent? - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4feEceifGMU)This works well in the front yard to repel 2 footed dinner time door knockers too.

[cmartin]

So far I've pulled a few potatoes, the strawberries were great and some herbs have been useful. Still a few days away for the first tomato and a few peppers are getting close.

My major error this year was planing too much. After tending to seeds for so long it didnt make sense to toss all but the best of the bunch. Now I have way too much planted, sure makes weeding a chore.

Also, I planned lettuce and radishes early, just before the neighbor's trees started growing. What was a nice sunny spot quickly became mostly shade. Needless to say, lettuce and radishes have been a failure.

I have a ton of broccoli that looks good but I'm not sure how much longer it can stand the hot weather.

[forklift]

Awesome. Hope to do something like this in a few years. PO planted asparagus so we do have that popping up.

[BlackTalon]

Sweet -- looks like addition is largely framed and waiting on sheathing.

Our herb garden has been going nutz, and we've had a ton of lettuce. Still a few strawberries, but petering out. Tomato plants are in varying stages, with many just beginning to flower. A few Romas have some hanging fruit, although probably still a couple weeks away from turning red. Peppers are really just getting going. Currents have been coming in well, but they are really tough for some reason (likely not enough agua). Got a few dozen green plums, so we may actually have some survive to ripening stage this year (cherry tree was decimated yet again by deer, despite surrounding wire fencing). Figs are bouncing back from near-death; tons of foliage but no figs. Still have green blueberries; we'll see if they survive to ripened stage this year.

[forklift]

Garden action video. I no longer drive I guess. I do yard work.

Hummingbird in the garden on Vimeo

Anyone know how to get rid of moles w/o poison worms or traps? Have a trap but nothing yet. I'm thinking night vision and a 22 or 12 gauge. Tunnels are everywhere in the garden.

[cmartin]

Good stuff. I see a few around my place, suckers can move!

I no longer drive I guess. I do yard work.

x2

Anyone know how to get rid of moles w/o poison worms or traps?

Think you dog could coexist with a cat? One started coming around a while ago and leave me all sorts of animal remains.

[forklift]

Tnx, but dog would eat cat or get clawed, probably latter. Thought about this though for the mice around here but snakes and traps have done a decent job so far for them. Don't particularly want more vet & pet food bills either but ...that is an idea to borrow one from somewhere and just keep the dog away for the weekend.

[cmartin]

I had good luck with bait stations for mice but the only thing thats worked for the voles/moles has been the cat.

On the garden, I'm just about to pull up the zucchini, squash bugs found me address and are going to town. I'm not happy about using chemicals but even the DTE gets washed away too easily.

Green beens have been great as have the peppers and egg plant. Only a few good tomatoes so far, some are rotting before they ripen, need to figure that out.

[Vicegrip]

When you do let me know. My tomatoes are splitting and rotting on the vine this year too. I think it has something to do with temps and water.

[BlackTalon]

Yeah, excess water has been wiping out tomatoes. If you have a plant that starts to yellow try and remove that portion right away, and if a plant is dying get it out quick. I think 1 out of 3 of our boxes are pretty compromised, and a second box has several plants that are showing signs. And to top it all off Leah waters each fuching box for 45 minutes every couple days :roll: I told her last night that has to stop, and the yellowed plants have to get trimmed/ yanked ASAP if she want tomatoes. So far we've had a couple dozen cherry tomatoes and some Romas are just ripening, but the 'regular' heirlooms are still flowers of green fruit and many may not make it.

On the 'plus' side she had some good strawberries last month and a second crop is coming in. And the lettuce in May/ June was pretty good. All the basil plants are going nuts, as well as oreganos, sage, tarragon and some others. Dill has already come and gone. Some squash has been coming in, but not much action on the pepper or cucumber plants. Banner year for the current bushes, which was nice after 5 years of trying.

[cmartin]

Good info on the tomatoes, I didnt think to pull the bad plants. Most look good but a few are brown and dont look like they'll come back.

My neighbor took down a tree a few weeks ago so what was a partly shaded area is now full sun all day. Maybe I'll get the right plant mix next year.

[BlackTalon]

It's all due to the heavy rains -- no more, no less. Wash Post Home Section had an article on it last week; tomato plants all around the area are suffering. Part of the article was advocating just pulling out all the plants and replanting with other stuff that would still have time to develop before the end of the growing season.

[Dr K]

Tnx, but dog would eat cat or get clawed, probably latter. Thought about this though for the mice around here but snakes and traps have done a decent job so far for them. Don't particularly want more vet & pet food bills either but ...that is an idea to borrow one from somewhere and just keep the dog away for the weekend.

For reasons known only to God (and perhaps vets), animals will be more likely to accept and love another animal if at least one of them is young when they're introduced. So, if you got a kitten, the dog would be more likely to befriend it, and the cat far less likely to claw the dog (other than in play - our cat would grab the golden retriever's eyebrow with her teeth, put her claws into the side and top of the golden's head, and the golden would raise her head and swing it around with the cat hanging on for the ride of her life. When the dog had had enough, she'd put her head down, lightly put her paw on the cat, and the cat would let go. Then they's sleep curled up with each other). Can't help you with the vet bills, but cats are generally much cheaper than dogs especially if you're willing to just replace them if they get a little sick...

[cmartin]

Just thought of this thread. The tomatoes are dwindling and I'm trying to find something to do with the last peppers. Tonight I put a nice looking pepper in a salad. Now my lips are on fire, seems I got a banana mixed up with a anaheim.

After the squash bugs wiped out all the cucumbers, squash, watermelon I planted another round in August. It might have been a little late as the plants are looking good but I'm not there there is enough time until its too cold. Plus, with the sun getting lower there is shade where it was full sun a month ago.

Oh well, next year!

[cmartin]

Anyone else still have some plants in the ground? It looks like a chance of frost this weekend, any plans to protect the crop? My late season summer squash is starting to to fruit and I would really like to get another week or 2 out of them if possible. Same with peppers, they just keep appearing and I'm not looking forward to grocery store produce.

Is some straw mulch enough or should I cover the plants with fabric overnight? Not looking for full on cold frames, I just cant let go of summer I guess.

[BlackTalon]

Brought in some green tomatoes yesterday. Basil is already pretty much gone, as are cucumbers and eggplant. Didn't have many pepper plants this year; not sure if anything is still out there maturing. Some cabbages, but those are exclusively Leah's and I don't mind if they freeze to death :-) Couple greenish figs; may let them freeze for that ice wine/ amarone effect. We'll leave all the herbs to fend for themselves.

[jbailey930]

good way to ripen green tomatoes is to put them in paper bags. watch for mold tho.

David - be careful pruning fig trees. If you get sap on your hands even through gloves, you can get a nasty rash - ask my wife how I know...google fig tree rash

I use burlap if you have it or sheets. This weekend may not be a freeze in your area.

[cmartin]

I use burlap if you have it or sheets. This weekend may not be a freeze in your area.

good info, thanks

I found a few options that should give me a few more weeks but I'm leaning towards winding things down soon. The squash bugs did a number on my plants this summer and now the 2nd crop is coming in I would really like to get some results.

Something else I've been looking into is how to extend the bounty for months not just days. Can, freeze, dry... lots of options.

[BlackTalon]

greenhouse. Poly at a minimum, and acrylic should insulate a little better. Sunlight becomes a factor, though -- it already diminished a lot.

I've been looking into this, but it winds up costing so much $$$ the cost per squash is waaaaaay more expensive then hitting a farmers market.

[cmartin]

No kidding, the simple, fun garden is getting pricey. I think with the raised beds I had will be straight forward to rig some tunnels but time time and $$. If I plan well enough maybe it could double as a cold frame for next spring, if I dont get burned out by then. Depending on the source, first front is anywhere from 10/5 to 10/31, maybe just enough time for me to be overwhelmed with squash.

[Vicegrip]

Go with nature not fight with it.