is PASM just something more to go wrong?

[Otto]

is pasm worth it, or just something more to go wrong?

just wondering what people think

otto

[Jazzbass]

As an instructor who sits right seat in the very fast, very capable cars that Porsche is now making, I LOVE PASM. Like a lot.

[Intubator]

I have it and like it a lot!

[vranko]

I think Otto was asking about Porsche Active Stability Management (PASM). I haven't heard any negatives other than the addition cost. I'm sure it's more costly to repair. If your planning to upgrade the suspension in the future I'd go with non PASM. If you care about road comfort then get PASM.

[jhsmith]

If you meant, PSM (Porsche Stability Management) then:

When I was at the Porsche factory school at Barbour Motorsports Park in Georgia earlier this year, they had it in all the cars we drove and told us to leave it on. If the warning light on the dash flashed at us, we were doing something wrong.

At least on my '09, putting the car into Sport+ mode increases the thresholds before PSM takes effect. When I drove that car at SP, I left it on and liked it. Particularly good to have when it rains at the track - I do miss it on my 993 but only when it rains.

If you meant PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management) then:

I agree with Vranko, skip it and upgrade the suspension.

I think Otto was asking about Porsche Stability Management (PASM). I haven't heard any negatives other than the addition cost. I'm sure it's more costly to repair. If your planning to upgrade the suspension in the future I'd go with non PSM. If you care about road comfort then get PASM.

[blipshift]

When I was at the Porsche factory school at Barbour Motorsports Park in Georgia earlier this year, they had it in all the cars we drove and told us to leave it on. If the warning light on the dash flashed at us, we were doing something wrong.

At least on my '09, putting the car into Sport+ mode increases the thresholds before PASM takes effect. When I drove that car at SP, I left it on and liked it. Particularly good to have when it rains at the track - I do miss it on my 993 but only when it rains.

You're confusing Porsche Stability Management (PSM) with Porsche Active Suspension Management (PASM).

[blipshift]

If your planning to upgrade the suspension in the future I'd go with non PASM. If you care about road comfort then get PASM.

x2

[Fumes]

I think Otto was asking about Porsche Active Stability Management (PASM).

I'll play "channel which Porsche acronym Otto meant" and disagree. I think he's talking about a non-PASM car (likely a Cayman) as in non-Porsche Active Suspension Management.

I don't think you can spec any modern cars without Porsche Active Stability Management - but you can remove it if the car is cracked (991 isn't, 997 is).

[jhsmith]

Harry, you type faster than I do. Just corrected it. You're confusing Porsche Stability Management (PSM) with Porsche Active Suspension Management (PASM).

[Cliff Claven]

PASM - porsche active suspension management

PSM - porsche stability management

[trytryagain]

I accidently left PSM turned on at a recent skidpad session (just for the first minute or so). With PSM on I could not make the car to break loose. Very impressive.

[CanAm]

I accidently left PSM turned on at a recent skidpad session (just for the first minute or so). With PSM on I could not make the car to break loose. Very impressive.

Just remember that PSM isn't as infallible on the track, where speeds are higher and geometry is more variable and more complex than the skidpad.

[trytryagain]

Yep. I already found that out!

[ausgeflippt951]

Ok, so for those of us who don't have fancy things like PSM, PASM, TC, SC, ABS, etc...

The difference between PASM and PSM is...:

- PSM has yaw control and ensures the car doesn't spin or lose control. Souped-up (and much smarter) version of traction control.
- PASM is the variable/dynamic shock absorber technology which softens and stiffens the ride depending on the road conditions.

So in sum, PSM is what you want your students to leave on. Don't care about PASM?


How wrong do I have this?

[vranko]

I'll play "channel which Porsche acronym Otto meant" and disagree. I think he's talking about a non-PASM car (likely a Cayman) as in non-Porsche Active Suspension Management.

I don't think you can spec any modern cars without Porsche Active Stability Management - but you can remove it if the car is cracked (991 isn't, 997 is).

Yes. My bad. I Meant Porsche Active Suspension Management in my comments above.

[blipshift]

Ok, so for those of us who don't have fancy things like PSM, PASM, TC, SC, ABS, etc...

The difference between PASM and PSM is...:

- PSM has yaw control and ensures the car doesn't spin or lose control. Souped-up (and much smarter) version of traction control.
- PASM is the variable/dynamic shock absorber technology which softens and stiffens the ride depending on the road conditions.



Bingo.

AFAIK PSM comes standard on all newer Porsches???

PASM, however, is definately an option. PASM is a simple two way electronically controlled suspension system with Normal and Sport operating settings. Sport mode adjusts ride height (~30mm lower IIRC) and stiffens the ride.

If you're planning to buy a car which will occasionally see track duty I'd get PASM. If you're buying a car and eventually plan to swap suspension don't waste your money. As far as buying something that will break I've never heard of maintenance issues or anyone complain about it....other than CanAm who wishes he had it back ;)

Interesting thread we have here though...I wonder how many instructors/students/drivers don't know the difference between PSM and PASM and inadvertently turn PSM off when they think they have PASM in Sport:shock:

[joep]

PASM on the Cayenne is generally desired, although it is one more thing to eventuality require extra maintenance. It will also add to the re-sale value in the same way an automatic transmission is preferred over manual in that more buyers will be interested just because.

Few Cayenne owners that I've talked too seem to use it much but it expands the options of where and how you might drive.

[BMAN]

Sport mode adjusts ride height (~30mm lower IIRC) and stiffens the ride.


PASM comes with shorter springs, -10mm, and stiffer springs, +15% compared to stock. So the ride height difference is fixed and PASM does not adjust the height, only the dampening rate. Little lower helps allow for more camber. btw, PASM with PTV lowers the car an additional 10mm over PASM.

It's nice for a dual purpose car, street and track.

[blipshift]

PASM comes with shorter springs, -10mm, and stiffer springs, +15% compared to stock. So the ride height difference is fixed and PASM does not adjust the height, only the dampening rate. Little lower helps allow for more camber. btw, PASM with PTV lowers the car an additional 10mm over PASM.

It's nice for a dual purpose car, street and track.

Gotcha. I knew there was a distinct difference in ride height between the cars but couldn't remember how much exactly....and apparently if it was adjustable!

The C2 non-PASM cars look damn near lifted next to a PASM car!

http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/911/911-carrera/chassis/porsche-active-suspension-management-pasm/

Porsche Active Suspension Management (PASM)

PASM, the electronic damping control system, is standard in the 911 Carrera S models and available as an option for the 911 Carrera models. It actively and continuously regulates damping forces according to driving style and road conditions. In addition, the suspension is lowered by 10 mm.
PASM has two modes, which can be selected using a separate button on the centre console: ‘Normal’, which is a blend of performance and comfort, and ‘Sport’ where the setup is much firmer.
To ensure efficient control interventions, a multitude of sensors in the 911 record the body movements that accompany powerful acceleration, braking or uneven road surfaces. The PASM control unit evaluates the driving conditions and modifies the damping force on each of the wheels in accordance with the selected mode.
In ‘Sport’ mode, the suspension is set to a harder damper rating. On uneven roads, PASM immediately switches to a softer rating, thereby improving contact between the wheels and the road. When the road surface improves, PASM automatically reverts to the original, harder rating. If ‘Normal’ mode is selected and the driver’s style becomes more assertive, PASM automatically switches to a harder rating. Damping firms up, and driving stability and road safety are increased.
The results are tangible: increased driving stability, improved comfort and enhanced performance.
PASM sports suspension

The PASM sports suspension is available as an option for the 911 Carrera Coupé models in conjunction with 20-inch wheels and Porsche Torque Vectoring (PTV) or Porsche Torque Vectoring Plus (PTV Plus).
The ride height is 20 mm lower than with the standard suspension or 10 mm compared with the PASM suspension. The springs are harder and shorter, and the anti-roll bars on the front and rear axles are stiffer. The front spoiler lip has a more sporty geometry, the rear spoiler extends even further. These not only further reduce lift at the front axle, but also provide downforce at the rear axle for improved aerodynamics and even better performance.

[987kmns]

To complicate matters further, Bilstein now makes a version of their sport shocks, HD shocks, and PSS9 system that are PASM compatible. They will plug into the car's PASM module and continue to do what the original PASM shocks did, but in a slightly more sporty manner (aka they are stiffer). So, if you do want to upgrade your suspension down the road, you don't have to necessarily lose PASM functionality.

TPC Racing makes a replacement for the original PASM module called Dynamic Suspension Control (DSC), which essentially changes shock stiffness while cornering. This is akin to Williams F1's active suspensions in the mid 90s. I think their DSC system can even be installed on non-PASM cars, but the cost is greater as there are more system components that need to be retrofitted.

All this to say that PASM might be a plus even for the more track oriented folks out there. I have no direct experience with any of the above products, so can't comment on their effectiveness. Personally, I like fewer driver aids rather than more, but that's just me.

[Otto]

sorry, i should have been more specific, PASM - porsche active suspension management - is what i was asking about

but i like the banter

i have been wanting a cayman r in large part because of the default suspension set up (also they are just cool)

this can be achieved with aftermarket parts on a cayman s

then again, with PASM, you have added flexibility, and can even 'upgrade' with the TPC chip (according to bill)

the market for 2009-2012 pdk cayman s is a little thin right now, but there are a couple with PASM

the cost on the cayman r is not going down as fast as i would like

otto

[TomChan]

- PASM is the variable/dynamic shock absorber technology which softens and stiffens the ride depending on the road conditions.


That's how the advertising material and owner's manual depict the function of the system within each mode but it actual doesn't do that. Or at least not to a degree that's measurable. Each mode has a fixed damping value. I'd consider it to be semi-active since the driver has to switch modes in order to notice the difference.

From a service standpoint, PASM is very reliable. And even though the factory system is not as "active" as it is depicted to be I enjoy having the versatility of switching modes.

[racer]

On the other hand, the X73 option (the "analog" sports suspension option), seems well like by the Panorama folks. I am sure it is not frequently found though on used examples.

[trytryagain]

My understanding is that the X73 parts can be purchased and installed at a pretty reasonable price.