Thoughts on 1999 Porsche 911 Carrera as a dedicated track car?

[thelittlemrs]

OK - so Michael and I are thinking about getting a dedicated track car that is also street legal (so I have something fun to drive). Anything we should be particularly aware of pertaining to the 1999 911s? We seem to be honing in one this one:

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=20854&endYear=1999&modelCode1=911&showcaseOwnerId=0&startYear=1999&makeCode1=POR&searchRadius=500&maxPrice=20000&extColorsSimple=WHITE&mmt=[POR[911[]][]]&listingId=378205912

Thanks, Pat

[Jazzbass]

Observation: watercooled 996 and 997 motors from 99 to about 07 seem to like to blow up a lot on track.

[Patrick3000]

Observation: watercooled 996 and 997 motors from 99 to about 07 seem to like to blow up a lot on track.

X2

[Gator_86_951]

x3. My friend just spent ~16k having his 05s motor rebuilt. Very happy now, but not happy when it happened on a car he thought he was caring for very well. Never saw any track time. Has been read the riot act; will take a longer 20+ minute commute to work...

[good hands]

No longer for sale ?

There seems to be no rhyme or reason to these car's engines failing. The 99's didn't have the same IMS that some of the later cars had. From my experience with 2 996's I'd have no problem buying another. Just make sure a few updates are completed like the X51 oil baffle and a transmission cooler if it's going to be a dedicated track car. The Porsche Motor sports air oil separator is a must too.

Here is the IMS story :
http://imsretrofit.com/

[Dr K]

For the track, you want at least a roll bar and preferably a cage. Also race seats with 6-point harnesses on both seats. A cage, and harnesses, and a stiff suspension make for a not-paricularly-comfortable street car. I build my race car to be street legal so I could drive to the track, and then bought a trailer and tow vehicle. I can't imagine driving even to Summit Point, although I do drive it to the shop.

[Cliff Claven]

one thing to be aware of is that the 99 996 was available with LSD which would be nice for a dual use car.

[blipshift]

The 996 is good value for money for a 911. One issue with tracking a streetable 911, especially ones that have a rollbar/cage, is that they have limited capacity to hold extra gear, tires, people, tools, etc. Next post will be...WTB trailex :)

[Trak Ratt]

Go for it! 996/997s make great track cars. Get a good PPI (including the overrevs), install the upgrades if not already done, then drive the snot out of it. If a true dedicated track tool then you will prolly be looking for the edge a lot more than a DD. So chances are you could ball it up before the engine grenades anyway :p

As DAve said "WTB trailer" IS in your future. Even if it's just a tyre trailer ;)

[Vicegrip]

No such thing as a dedicated track car that can be driven on the street. What makes a car a Safer Track car makes it a poor unsafe street car.

Full cage with real door bars proper halo seat, proper belts, right side net, bolted poly carbonate windsheld, all the plastic and cloth removed from the drivers compartment, fire supression, track susp setup and the like.

If you are looking for a DE car that has some improved safety and is still street legal that you will need to compromise between the two needs, legal and track safe.

[N Fotouhi]

^^x100 on what TR and VG said

Every time I get into our 993 race car, I slam my helmet against role bar for not buying a 996 instead. :bang: 99 is the way to go for track due to its simplicity.

[Carrera51]

Seems to me that the ones that have engine issues are the low mileage garage queens. I know of several M96 powered cars that have over 100K miles on original engines that have been tracked for years without issues. It really is hit or miss. One of my friends down here has a 99 Boxster with over 200K on the odometer. He picked up the car from a customer of his who used it as a daily driver. Car has never had the IMS done and still has the original clutch. Engine is bone dry and he's had Blackstone do oil analysis on on two oil samples. No red flags in either.

[ausgeflippt951]

I thought the issue was that when not driven frequently enough, the moisture in the oil corrodes the bearing/seal and lets the oil in to wash away the grease. Then the bearing fails and out comes the oil.

So the "workaround" was to drive the car frequently and change the oil regularly. And put in a better IMS bearing/seal.


And 996S with stock suspension, plus roll bar, racing seats, harnesses (need at least 5-points), and race brakes will make for a phenomenally capable car. Many on this board daily drove their track cars, particularly when first getting into DEs. I DD'd mine for years and I haven't changed it much from that configuration since starting to trailer it a couple years ago.

[Hunter]

FWIW, I drove my 996 on track for a number of years. It doubled as a street car not a daily driver but more occasional car. I put in a four point roll bar (goodby backseat), seats, harnesses and PSS9s for adjustability for track and street. It was a great way to appreciate the scope of a great car. I did not run Shenandoah which is where most 996 drovers had oil starvation issues. The oil baffle will probably help here. I did do the IMS change for good measure. Get a spare set of wheels for DOT legal (track) tires to drive to/from track or beg a ride for your wheels to away events just so you have spares.

Happy to answer any questions I can from my experience.

[thelittlemrs]

I have a daily driver (my workhorse Subaru wagon - good for hauling dogs and people and hardware and groceries etc). When I say that we want the track car to be street legal it is more so that we can get it here and there without a trailer or if I want to drive up to the village to grab a starbucks with it I can. :)

Given the initial outlay expense it would be an ongoing project car evolving into something special over the next 2 years....

[John Clay]

I have a daily driver (my workhorse Subaru wagon - good for hauling dogs and people and hardware and groceries etc and autoxing while between p-cars). When I say that we want the track car to be street legal it is more so that we can get it here and there without a trailer or if I want to drive up to the village to grab a starbucks with it I can. :)

Given the initial outlay expense it would be an ongoing project car evolving into something special over the next 2 years....

FTFY

[jhsmith]

I'm hearing the opportunity to buy N. Fotouhi's 993 as a track car so he can get a 996...

I went through a similar set of decisions last year on tracking my 2009 997. The decision to go with a dedicated track car lets you make some safety upgrades so 964's, 993's, 996's, 997's (and boxsters and caymans and miatas and ...) are all good choices, it just depends. I decided to go with a 993 for the track for a number of reasons (all of which could be debated).

One thing to consider is to trying to get a car that will pass inspection (so you can at least drive it to the shop and to get gas without pulling out the trailer). In some cases, going with a car from the early 90's (so it is 20 years old) qualifies you for antique or vintage plates and is easier to get past inspection. With that in mind, you may want to look at 964's and 993's (and miatas:) ).

[vranko]

^ x2 on the strategy of getting a 964 or 993 for the ability to have it pass inspection. I'd rule out the 993s because of the higher prices. Althought I hear 964s have appreciated a lot also recently.

[good hands]

^ x2 on the strategy of getting a 964 or 993 for the ability to have it pass inspection. I'd rule out the 993s because of the higher prices. Althought I hear 964s have appreciated a lot also recently.

Early 996's are the affordable 911's now. They are a lot of car for the money too.

[blipshift]

Given the initial outlay expense it would be an ongoing project car evolving into something special over the next 2 years....

If you're willing to search and be patient I recommend buying a prepped car. Look for a 996 that has a rollbar, seats, and suspension work etc already done. Let somebody else take the hit. While aforementioned doesn't sound like much it will cost an additional half your initial outlay for a 996 to add these things after the fact.

The other consideration here is that you can get a newer Cayman near about what you would pay for a 996. The concept of buy as new as you can afford has merit. Food for thought.

[vranko]

^ Completely agree. My point was only that passing inspection requires the airbag to still be functional on a car that originally came equipped with an airbag (or the use of black tape over the airbag light :shock:). A detachable racing wheel seems to be a giveaway though to state inspectors!

[Trak Ratt]

... Every time I get into our 993 race car, I slam my helmet w/head inside against role bar for not buying a 996 instead...This really explains a lot boy-o ;)

... I DD'd mine for years and I haven't changed it much from that configuration since starting to trailer it a couple years ago. We went the other way taking our '99 996 w/later 3.6 engine, GT3 suspention, areo kit, 3 rd radiator, etc, etc. of the track and now it's our DD! Just switched back to stock(ish) pads and 4 season tyres. Chassis has ~120K miles, 3.6 ~60 or so now. Just had Intersport replaced clutch (came apart) and did the IMS upgrade since car was apart.

[vranko]

The other consideration here is that you can get a newer Cayman near about what you would pay for a 996. The concept of buy as new as you can afford has merit. Food for thought.

Good luck finding one near the price of a 996.

[blipshift]

Not hard at all.

2007 Cayman $24k. 62k miles. Manual.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=20110&endYear=2015&modelCode1=CAYMAN&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&showcaseOwnerId=0&startYear=1981&makeCode1=POR&searchRadius=0&showcaseListingId=0&mmt=%5BPOR%5BCAYMAN%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=361285831&Log=0

1999 996 $20K. 44k miles. Manual.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=20110&endYear=2002&modelCode1=911&sortBy=mileageASC&showcaseOwnerId=0&startYear=1999&makeCode1=POR&firstRecord=76&searchRadius=0&showcaseListingId=0&mmt=%5BPOR%5B911%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=373695640&Log=0

[vranko]

^ Yes. That's about the price difference I expected. I've seen most Gen I Cayman S's hovering around 30K recently.

[blipshift]

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=20110&endYear=2008&modelCode1=CAYMAN&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&showcaseOwnerId=0&startYear=2007&makeCode1=POR&searchRadius=0&showcaseListingId=0&mmt=%5BPOR%5BCAYMAN%5BCAYMAN%257CS%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=361095695&Log=0

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=20110&endYear=2008&modelCode1=CAYMAN&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&showcaseOwnerId=0&startYear=2007&makeCode1=POR&searchRadius=0&showcaseListingId=0&mmt=%5BPOR%5BCAYMAN%5BCAYMAN%257CS%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=374447288&Log=0

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=20110&endYear=2008&modelCode1=CAYMAN&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&showcaseOwnerId=0&startYear=2007&makeCode1=POR&searchRadius=0&showcaseListingId=0&mmt=%5BPOR%5BCAYMAN%5BCAYMAN%257CS%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&listingId=375110195&Log=0

[jhsmith]

^x3 on finding a prepared car. Better to let somebody else pay for the seats, harnesses, cage, etc.

[blipshift]

^ Yes. That's about the price difference I expected. I've seen most Gen I Cayman S's hovering around 30K recently.

Gotcha. You can find some high mile beat up 1999 996s for under $15k but you can also find relatively low mile Caymans under $25k which correlate pretty well with low mile 996s.

IMHO, folks looking at a 15yr old <50K mile 996 might/should consider a 7yr old <80k mile Cayman.

[vranko]

IMHO, folks looking at a 15yr old <50K mile 996 might/should consider a 7yr old <80k mile Cayman.

I can't argue with that logic. That's why I bought my Cayman :) I also like the mid-engine platform (oops, did I just say that out loud :lol:)

[blipshift]

I can't argue with that logic. That's why I bought my Cayman :) I also like the mid-engine platform (oops, did I just say that out loud :lol:)

Well, if we're stepping on toes I'll add that I'd also rather have the newer Cayman over the albeit great platform but ugliest 911 ever made! IMHO, of course :). Kind of like the 944 of 911s!!!! :lol::D;)

Truth be told, it would be a really tough choice. It's just...What were they thinking with those headlights...blah!

[roundel]

Seems that picking a non dry sump Porsche should only be considered if you aren't going to step up to track tires. Mezger himself commented that the 996 design was not intended for cornering loads above 1G.

[vranko]

One other positive though about the 996. I now view ONLY having ABS as an advantage over all the additional stability control systems in newer generation cars. Track upgrades just confuse them.

[blipshift]

One other positive though about the 996. I now view ONLY having ABS as an advantage over all the additional stability control systems in newer generation cars. Track upgrades just confuse them.

^^^this.

Another reason to buy pre-prepped

[good hands]

Is there something about Caymans that make them more expensive to build ? Seems like a track prepared Cayman is way more expensive than a track ready 996.

Here's a couple of nice ones :p

http://www.isringhausen.com/Inventory/2012/Porsche/Cayman/VehicleID/9486

http://www.isringhausen.com/Inventory/2012/Porsche/Cayman/VehicleID/9483

[vranko]

^ not sure but. :drooling.

How much was Ryan's 997.1 build :-)

[blipshift]

Great site, Scott!


mmmmmm

http://www.isringhausen.com/Inventory/2008/Porsche/911/VehicleID/10688

[CanAm]

Is there something about Caymans that make them more expensive to build ? Seems like a track prepared Cayman is way more expensive than a track ready 996.

Could be a supply/demand thing. Very desirable cars (fast!), but not that many out there, and building one yourself does put you in the ~$100K+ range.

[FTS]

I also like the mid-engine platform (oops, did I just say that out loud :lol:)
I think that's because you haven't yet figured out the 911 platform :twisted: :D

[N0tt0N]

Those are Isringhausen's Interseries Cayman builds though the series is gone. As in, real endure race cars. A 911 prepped by them would, of course, cost more.

Buy a prepped car, only a moron would build their own :shock:

[vranko]

I think that's because you haven't yet figured out the 911 platform :twisted: :D

You've seen the new 991 cup right. Engine's getting closer and closer to the middle :-)

Buy a prepped car, only a moron would build their own :shock:

I resemble that remark. :shock:

[ausgeflippt951]

I give it two (maybe three) more iterations of the 911 before the car is mid-engined. Another 1-2 iterations after that before Porsche starts actually calling it mid-engined.


I'm not totally convinced that buying a prepped track car is as good an idea as, say, buying a prepped race car. I'd be more concerned of the massively greater wear-and-tear on the motor/suspension/chassis that the track car gets compared to a medium-mileage, immaculately-maintained street car.

The reason I'm nit-picking is that there is a big difference between a dual-purpose track car and a race car; it doesn't take much to make a 911 "track ready" (whereas building a race car is a major project). As mentioned, a roll bar, seats, harnesses, sticky tires, brakes, and maybe adjustable ARBs would give you a hugely capable package. And even with someone else doing the labor, it won't cost you more than $6-7k.

Now compare that to things you'll potentially need to replace on the pre-prepped track car. I'm not sure there's a clear-cut winner, here.


That said, if choosing to go the pre-prepped car route, I would not consider cars which didn't come with enhanced cooling, IMS upgrade, etc. It's very easy to focus on the sexy bits (suspension, tires, roll cage :twisted:) and forget about the stuff that will make your car more reliable.


...own a 944 turbo and you'll find out exactly what that means.

[N0tt0N]

I resemble that remark. :shock:

I was looking in the mirror when I typed that :)

Collin, good point on the track prepped vs. race prepped.

[good hands]

I'm not totally convinced that buying a prepped track car is as good an idea as, say, buying a prepped race car.



I believe I talked my student from the last event into buying a fully prepped race car as opposed to a track car. Unfortunately he may be searching for an enclosed trailer too as we speak. I hope I am not contributing to a divorce.....This sport is worse than crack. :)

[blipshift]

I think dedicated track car means you need to do the preventative maintenance peices that increase longevity. That said, comparing 944s to modern cars isn't apples to apples. How many track days did CanAm do in his Cayman in one season, 50? That's probably 5 times the average bear and I don't recall any posts during that time where he had significant issues. To your point, no way a 944 goes 50 days without a major disaster and 10 aftershocks.

Space and budget permitting, buy a prepped race car, truck and trailer, agree, that's your safest bet, on the track. But not as a street car.

[CanAm]

I think dedicated track car means you need to do the preventative maintenance peices that increase longevity. That said, comparing 944s to modern cars isn't apples to apples. How many track days did CanAm do in his Cayman in one season, 50? That's probably 5 times the average bear and I don't recall any posts during that time where he had significant issues. No way a 944 goes 50 days without a major disaster and 10 aftershocks.

The Cayman (987.2) has been quite reliable. Between the wife and me, I think it has about 120 track days on it.

Significant work on it so far has been rebuilding rear calipers, putting in a new (Giken) LSD, adding a third radiator, and replacing TPMs. Still need to address general overheating issues with the brakes, but I'm hopeful that we can find a fix which won't be too expensive.

Haven't used tires stickier than NT01s on it, so I'm not sure what the consequences of semi-slicks or slicks would be.

Haven't done any leakdown, compression, or dyno testing, but the engine feels and sounds OK so far.

Snags a little sometimes when shifting into 3rd gear, but it's not (yet) a big deal.

[blipshift]

I give it two (maybe three) more iterations of the 911 before the car is mid-engined. Another 1-2 iterations after that before Porsche starts actually calling it mid-engined.


As mentioned, a roll bar, seats, harnesses, sticky tires, brakes, and maybe adjustable ARBs would give you a hugely capable package. And even with someone else doing the labor, it won't cost you more than $6-7k.



A welded in, nice fab roll bar seats and harnesses will cost $6k alone. Tires/wheels? Sky is the limit but a set of used carerra IIIs mounted with 888s will run $1.5k, minimum. Coilovers? $4k. That's before (should say after) IMS, perishables, and performance reliability mods.

[vranko]

A welded in, nice fab roll bar seats and harnesses will cost $6k alone. Tires/wheels? Sky is the limit but a set of used carerra IIIs mounted with 888s will run $1.5k, minimum. Coilovers? $4k. That's before IMS, perishables, clutch, belts, or performance reliability mods.

I can attest to those figures. Add motorsports AOS, deep oil pan with baffle and power steering cooler (for Cayman).

[BikePump]

so to be clear the idea is not race ready but track prepped for DE events. safety equipment (roll bar, seats harness), brakes pads, and motor related reliability like IMS and baffle. the other benefit to doing those things myself is the learning exercise as well as the extended window for making the expenditures after buying the car. a well maintained street car can be DE'd with little effort and improved over time. (unless i hit some other thing....)

[Patrick3000]

so to be clear the idea is not race ready but track prepped for DE events. safety equipment (roll bar, seats harness), brakes pads, and motor related reliability like IMS and baffle. the other benefit to doing those things myself is the learning exercise as well as the extended window for making the expenditures after buying the car. a well maintained street car can be DE'd with little effort and improved over time. (unless i hit some other thing....)

Or just buy a 996 TT add safety equipment and :D

[blipshift]

Buy a $4k turn key 944 and learn how to drive, heel toe, left foot brake etc. go to as many events that you can. beat the crap out of it. Sell for $3k to the next guy. Have better understanding of what exactly it is you really want. Buy that.

[CanAm]

BikePump, what's your budget?

[FTS]

I know I am cheap, but all this money spent on having few fun laps at the track? Buying a new/near new street/sports car and just having few laps around a track with no or minimal modifications sound more and more attractive to me.

I give it two (maybe three) more iterations of the 911 before the car is mid-engined. Another 1-2 iterations after that before Porsche starts actually calling it mid-engined.

I seriously doubt that; people having been saying this for the last 30 years at least, why mess up something that is the best performance config?

[hobiecat]

Buy a $4k turn key 944 and learn how to drive, heel toe, left foot brake etc. go to as many events that you can. beat the crap out of it. Sell for $3k to the next guy. Have better understanding of what exactly it is you really want. Buy that.
^^^^ THIS!!!

While not as powerful as most other P-cars, one should never underestimate the true value of a 944
when it comes to simply learning how to drive well.

And....there are not many things that are more satisfying than catching and passing a 911 on track in a lower powered car. :-)

Doing that in 944 takes more than just HP.

[VaSteve]

X2...I'm still deciding what I want. ;)

[thelittlemrs]

Our budget is $15K. And while the 944 is a great idea for $ reasons, I am just not drawn to them aesthetically - and since this is going to be my car essentially I have to like it.

[BMAN]

I know I am lazy, but ......just having few laps around a track with no or minimal modifications

one should never underestimate the true ease of driving a 944

Ftfy

[good hands]

Our budget is $15K. .

Boxster S is the best bang for the buck with that budget.

[rs911t]

Buy a $4k turn key 944 and learn how to drive, heel toe, left foot brake etc. go to as many events that you can. beat the crap out of it. Sell for $3k to the next guy. Have better understanding of what exactly it is you really want. Buy that.
Buy an old 911 and really learn how drive :D

[Der ABT]

Buy a car you can learn in....you can damage and replace/repair and not be to the point of...."out of hobby sale"

when you get better buy the car of your dreams.....

you learn soo much more driving a slower car fast than a fast car slow....

Many years i thought i was a fast driver in the DE ranks....LAUGHABLE when i look at old video's...i was consistent cause i was so far away from the limits it wasnt funny...granted it was the car i drove everyday so it was also a necessity not to hurt it.

A cheap 944, miata, etc are great to learn on and can be sold fairly easily....and you can possibly even squeeze in a fun street car or at least a towvehicle/trailer that you can use with the next car too.

Boxsters are getting popular to race with lots of competition so could be a good point to buy in before they start to skyrocket in prices.

Scott however has a good point about buying an actual race car vs a street car turned race car....there is definately a little more safety built in, less issues to deal with etc, someone has already bought all the shiny new parts and you are getting a "discount" but may also get a few issues to work out.

while id love a cup car...running costs are STUPID...if you ask me that is....heck my 84 911 isnt exactly cheap to run but i run it hard and i love that car...went from 3 yrs of DE in it to racing and i dont think id change how i did it....bought a solid car/platform...rant it as it was till i was driving a little better, then started driving it harder
Still on the shocks, sways, t-bars ...EVERYthing that the guy i bought it from did...
i dont even know what size tbars i have.

[blipshift]

Boxster S is the best bang for the buck with that budget.

X2. Your budget doesn't support a 996.

[Goldie]

The answer is always: Miata. Or a 944 in this scenario. Get the $4K 944, spend some add'l 5 figure on a nice Boxster S, and be done.

I have learned so much more in driving my Miata in the past two years than I have learned in driving various AWD and high horse powered Audi S4s and Saaburu 9-2Xs..

[Trak Ratt]

Our budget is $15K... Seriously?? Like Cold Hands said "Boxster" if you don't like '44s and want a sorta Porsche). BTW if your budget is $15K going in you need to look for a $10K car! Anything in that price range WILL need some updates. Are you good w/tools? $$$ go a lot farther if you can at least do the basic like take old piece off put on new piece.

[CanAm]

Our budget is $15K. And while the 944 is a great idea for $ reasons, I am just not drawn to them aesthetically - and since this is going to be my car essentially I have to like it.

Actually, a better question to consider is how much you're prepared to spend on DE each year. The price of the car is just the beginning, and you can usually get most of that money back when you sell the car. Not so for tires, pads, fluids, fuel, registrations, hotels, insurance, etc.

[roundel]

Or consider BMW. You could get two E36 M3s in your budget or one E46 M3. Imagine the handling of a fofo with the speed of a 3.2 Carrera and reliability to beat either. The handling is text book and will allow you to really focus on droving instead of worrying about the car. The M3 I sold to fund my 996 had around 300 track days and never failed to carry me home at the end of the weekend. The E36 M3 is currently the best bang for the buck track toy and it comes with room to carry your track tires and a roof already installed!

[Fumes]

Our budget is $15K. And while the 944 is a great idea for $ reasons, I am just not drawn to them aesthetically - and since this is going to be my car essentially I have to like it.

I would consider $10k Boxster, spend rest on consumables.

Khalil adores his '02 on NT01s

And not to mention Eberhardt and his fantastic Boxster sliding machine....riding with him was an amazingly fun experience

[ausgeflippt951]

Bob, great point: there are loads of E46 M3's and I've heard some theories that they're going to start appreciating soon.

And we absolutely love our Boxster. It's twice the car of my 944, even if my 944 can run circles around it on the track. And what's even better: driving with the top down is just plain fun.

[smdubovsky]

Bob, great point: there are loads of E46 M3's and I've heard some theories that they're going to start appreciating soon.

Haha. The E36s have to start going up first as a whole (getting close.) 46s still have a ways to come down.

FWIW, We've been toying w/ the idea of selling the GTS2 racecar...

[Dr K]

We've been toying w/ the idea of selling the GTS2 racecar...

Price? Dibs!
Peter



Michael,

BMW should be a consideration. They drive a LOT like P-cars, are priced well, have torque and handle really well.

A Boxster S doesn't really fit your budget - you can buy in your range, but it will need too much to be safe/good on the track. A base Boxster, while not as fast and not as good a suspension, is an even handling car and remember what was said above, it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. You want to learn, and find something you can move up from.

Look at '44s again, and drive one. They do have a nice muscular look, are comfortable to sit in, handle really well, and are very affordable.

I agree with what others said about Miatas having driving one this past weekend, but not a good car for PCA DEs at any level - too slow on the straights.

[BikePump]

Thanks DrK. thelittlemrs has her might set on a white 911 of some variation...and so it shall be :)

[vranko]

Good call. Don't mess with her might :lol:

[BikePump]

I am a VERY lucky man that I have a wife who wants me to get a track car and has a clear idea of exactly what SHE wants it to look like.

[blipshift]

Thanks DrK. thelittlemrs has her might set on a white 911 of some variation...and so it shall be :)

It's certainly important that y'all like the car. But using terms like "dedicated" 911 996 "track car" for $15k is an unreasonable expectation. At $15k, chances are you'll end up with a 4 owner 130k+ mile unknown maintenance history gem sold at Herbs Used Cars and Tobacco Barn.

If you can shell out the additional cash spend $18-20k to get a lower mile well documented one owner private sale car and still get a PPI.

Either way, you'll end up spending $20k+ before you even start conversion. Before you know it your $15k investment has another $15k to make it a "track car." Buy prepped!

[ausgeflippt951]

Can't you find a midyear targa for less than $15k? :P

[Dr K]

DON'T GET A TARGA for your "dedicated" track car! (ask me how I know)

[Der ABT]

Join the E class Army......you can find a pretty good one for close to your budget..sorta.

[Vicegrip]

911 + track prepped + $15,000 = 1/2.

[Mark Hubley]

Last December I purchased a 2000 Carrera with 82K miles for $18K. The seller had recently inherited the car from a deceased brother-in-law. The seller had the clutch and IMS bearing replaced just prior to the sale. There were some other maintenance records, but not much info there. The car appeared to be in pretty good shape, and so far that's holding true. I'm still thinking that $18K was a good deal.

Over a few weekends last spring I did the following work on the car (I have a lift, which helps):

ROW M030 suspension kit (shocks, springs, sway bars)
water pump and thermostat
spark plugs and tubes
polyrib belt
fuel filter
air filters
oil change
GT3 seats

I paid $1300 for the suspension, and I think I'm under $500 for the rest. Add in the Kenwood head unit and I'm at $20,000. I hate to say what I paid for a pair of used (very good condition), leather GT3 seats. For those of you who are good at math, they put me at about $24K. Add at least $2K to that if I had a shop do the labor.

I plan to begin using the 996 as my DE car next year, but I want to keep it civilized for street use. My plan is to add a roll bar (something like DAS Sport) and harnesses. There's another $2K if I can do the work myself. And I think that's about all I'm going to do to get started, other than tires and brake pads.

So, I'm expecting to be on the track in a 996 for about $27K depending on what I shell out for tires.

I'm comfortable with a roll bar, harnesses, HANS, and helmet for safety. We take risks in life, right?

Over time I'll consider replacing the oil pan, AOS, etc.

[Mark Hubley]

Just noticed that I'm right about on target with Vicegrip's projection.

[Cliff Claven]

$15k could probably get you a serious 944 LS conversion track car. would be a blast to drive. but don't expect a reliable 996 track setup for that price.

[Patrick3000]

Our budget is $15K. And while the 944 is a great idea for $ reasons, I am just not drawn to them aesthetically - and since this is going to be my car essentially I have to like it.

Given your budget a 1999/2000 frc Corvette would make a very nice track car, add some safety equipment and you are in business.

[brianr]

I am going to check this car out this weekend. The 1985 may get garage queen status. All I know is their first names, Karen and Tom.

http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/610824434/overview/

[BikePump]

no but it looks like its in great shape. its amazing to me how well these cars have held up. the '99 we bought has 128k miles on the motor and this past weekend at SP it was loving it!!