944 guys, I have a question...

[pookie]

Was looking at my local CL this morning and there is a non running 89 944 listed for dirt cheap. Aren't they all??? Bazinga. Anyways but it is an auto, is it possible to swap to a manual? I vaguely remember someone saying that the input shafts are slightly different between the manual and auto but now I'm not sure.

Are V8 motor swaps on 944s as dreaded as in 911s?

[pookie]

I just looked and the Renegade Hybrids kit for a V8 into a 944 is $2100+ That's almost 4 times more than the asking price on the car in question. So scratch that idea.

Back to the auto to manual swap.

[HoodPin]

Interesting question. No personal conversion experience with a 944. But I would think the torque converter sits where the clutch is. But no idea if the bellhousing and torque tube are the same. My guess would be that you have to source a flywheel, bell housing and torque tube, in addition to the tranny, to do the conversion from Auto to Manual. And then there's the shifter rod and shifter. And then you need to confirm you have the proper mounting points available for the clutch pedal, and clutch MC. And also not sure how much the ECU is affected/involved.

I did a 240Z Auto to Manual conversion way back when. Considered doable when I discovered all the needed hangers, holes, etc. were already on the car. Bought another 240Z with rotting frame to obtain all the needed bits.

Perhaps your best option would be to find another 944 Manual with enough other damage/issues to make it super cheap, and then move the pieces from one car to the other. The ECU might also be transferrable.

[Potomac-Greg]

There are enough manual 944s out there that you shouldn't need to convert a non-running automatic. And the key with the V8 conversions is that you want to start with a GOOD transaxle and give high preference to one with LSD. A 951 transaxle seems to be preferred. But they are getting harder and harder to find.

[BeerBurner]

There are enough manual 944s out there that you shouldn't need to convert a non-running automatic.

This is my thought as well. I don't know the specifics of an auto-to-manual swap but it seems to me that it makes more sense to just get a manual one and be done with it (unless you want the project).

BB.

[racer]

x100.. lots of unloved manuals already out there. Why waste time/energy converting one.

[Vicegrip]

I am not a 944 guy but I have seen some very nice V8 conversions. A chebby V8 fits like they were meant to be together.

[VaSteve]

Non running? Strike 1. Auto trans? Strike 2. How's the body? Generally don't find great looking cars that are inoperable.

Does the reall seem like a good idea?

[pookie]

You guys made all relevant points. Of course my wife made the more relevant point of "you know where you can put it...". And I don't think she was talking about where it was going to park.

Asking price was $450, but its Craigslist and I figured it would sell for less. The body looked fine, no obvious wreck damage, phone dial wheels, gold/copper color, advertised with leather seats. And I thought if you were going to go 944 89 was the model year to have.

And of course a running one popped up for $2500 and another for $2200 yesterday as well, and both were manuals.

[Potomac-Greg]

You guys made all relevant points. Of course my wife made the more relevant point of "you know where you can put it...". And I don't think she was talking about where it was going to park.

Asking price was $450, but its Craigslist and I figured it would sell for less. The body looked fine, no obvious wreck damage, phone dial wheels, gold/copper color, advertised with leather seats. And I thought if you were going to go 944 89 was the model year to have.

And of course a running one popped up for $2500 and another for $2200 yesterday as well, and both were manuals.

Maybe the numbers have changed, but during my tenure at a 944 owner, the rule of thumb was that EVERY 944 was at least a $7,500 investment. If you paid less to buy it, you made up the different in repairs. There are so many things that a non-running car might need, whereas one that's regularly driven will be a better platform. I still yearn for a 951/V8 conversion. It just seems so right!

[HoodPin]

For $450, it might make a fun V8 conversion project. But I agree with others that the time/effort to simply convert it to a manual tranny is not worth it, relative to other examples out there available for purchase.

AFAIK, the 88's have the best motors; slightly higher compression pistons. Not sure what else makes an 89 944 NA so desirable. '89 was the first year of the 944S2's, which are different, with 3L twin-cam motors. Somewhere in this time-frame 944 Turbo S was also available, which is another step up.

[John]

AFAIK, the 88's have the best motors; slightly higher compression pistons. Not sure what else makes an 89 944 NA so desirable. '89 was the first year of the 944S2's, which are different, with 3L twin-cam motors. Somewhere in this time-frame 944 Turbo S was also available, which is another step up.

Pretty sure 1989 was the only year for the 2.7 liter 8 valve motor. Maybe some of the later '88s had that motor as well? That extra 0.2 liters of displacement was good for a whopping 7 additional horsepower, bringing your grand total to somewhere in the vicinity of 17. So if you're going to buy a 2.something normally aspirated 944, I would say that yes, 1989 is the year to go for. I loved mine.

Back on topic, $450 for a non-running slushbox 944 sounds like a terrible automotive decision, and not in a good way.

[HoodPin]

Pretty sure 1989 was the only year for the 2.7 liter 8 valve motor. Maybe some of the later '88s had that motor as well? That extra 0.2 liters of displacement was good for a whopping 7 additional horsepower, bringing your grand total to somewhere in the vicinity of 17. So if you're going to buy a 2.something normally aspirated 944, I would say that yes, 1989 is the year to go for. I loved mine.

Back on topic, $450 for a non-running slushbox 944 sounds like a terrible automotive decision, and not in a good way.

Thanks. I'd forgotten about the 2.7L motors. The '88's with higher compression were still 2.5L.

FWIW, from a racing perspective though, the 2.5's run in a lower class; the 2.7's run in higher class with the Turbo's, S2's, & 968's, though they get to run with less weight (per PCA and 944Cup classing).

[Fritz]

In recent years the 944's have been common finds for lemons cars and that should put some insight into the value of a non-running one. We paid $400 for one that ran great with 78K miles and an LSD plus nice wheels. "Minor" electrical issues where all that had to be repaired. Oh and the front left corner might of been knocked back a little bit from a quick moving phone poll.

I think you offer him a 6 pack for him to help you load it onto your trailer.

[hobiecat]

....though they get to run with less weight (per PCA and 944Cup classing).

Trust me - it doesn't help that much. :-)

[smo]

The $7500 figure noted above seems about right to me. I dropped at least that much (after buying the car) to ensure all the usual stuff was taken care of. Probably did way too much work on it actually, but I wanted to be able to DE the car and not grenade the engine. Unfortunately its now just a weekend toy that needs to get back to the track.

As you've found there are good manual 944's around, I wouldn't waste my time swapping in a manual to a non-running car.