Oil for the winter

[Len 911]

What oil do you guys run in the winter. I have a 911 3.2 and drive it work some times. Is Brad Penn 20w50 OK to use. I would like to keep driving thru the winter . New to Porsches so I want to do what is right.
Oil weight and brand please.

[roundel]

What oil do you guys run in the winter. I have a 911 3.2 and drive it work some times. Is Brad Penn 20w50 OK to use. I would like to keep driving thru the winter . New to Porsches so I want to do what is right.
Oil weight and brand please.

Brad Penn 20w50 is what I always run. Once salt hits the road, I try not to drive it until rain has washed away the salt, but I do enjoy it in the cold weather.

[Roo]

Brad Penn 20W-50 is what I run in my 83SC with a 3.2.
20W-50 is slow to circulate and warm with air cooled engines in temps below 35F. If your car stays in a heated garage, then this shouldn't an issue since the oil will be a garage temperature.
This season, my 83SC didn't even come up to temp (180) at Mid-Ohio and I had to tape over most of my front oil cooler to get the oil warm.
From that experience, I plan to run 10W-40 Mobil 1 this winter since I like to drive mine often.
I'll switch back to Brad Penn 20W-50 in late March.

[Dr K]

Chip,
If you run regular Mobile-1, you MUST add ZDDP to protect your cam from wear. They've removed most of the ZDDP from motor-car oils over the past few years, because few cars on the road need it to lubricate effectively, but older 911s with their flat tappets do need this. I always run either oil with ZDDP or use an additive, but still needed to replace one of my camshafts during my recent rebuild due to wear. :-(

[Len 911]

Kurt, what oil do you recomend ?.. What brand of oil has the ZDDP in it ?

[Dr K]

Brad Penn, Valvoline Racing Oil, or any number of additives. I have of late been using Mobile-1 and adding additive I get from Magnetic1 (Steve Wong) www.brakeswap.com. I formerly used ZDDP purchased mail-order for much more hassle and cost. And this way I support a local guy (exp. since I keep threatening to get an E36).

[Roo]

Peter,
Good point that I left out of my post. I have the ZDDP additive for that purpose.
Thanks for catching that!

Chip,
If you run regular Mobile-1, you MUST add ZDDP to protect your cam from wear. They've removed most of the ZDDP from motor-car oils over the past few years, because few cars on the road need it to lubricate effectively, but older 911s with their flat tappets do need this. I always run either oil with ZDDP or use an additive, but still needed to replace one of my camshafts during my recent rebuild due to wear. :-(

[kaefer]

What oil do you guys run in the winter. I have a 911 3.2 and drive it work some times. Is Brad Penn 20w50 OK to use. I would like to keep driving thru the winter . New to Porsches so I want to do what is right.
Oil weight and brand please.

For street use 911s I fill with Brad Penn 20w50 in the spring and 10w40 in the fall. I've been doing this for a few years now and I feel the cars run better this way. Actually I've considered running 10w40 year round but haven't done so... yet.

[Len 911]

Does the Brad Pen have the ZDDP already in it ?
Thank you all for the replies

[Vicegrip]

IIRC they reduced the zinc as it contaminates the O2 sensors and or the cat cells and makes it harder to reach the required lifespan for some EPA required equipment.
I also seem to remember that the flat tappet thing is only for 911 motors that are run hard as hell with notably extended rpm ranges. Normal redline use the oil mattered little, green, blue, purple whatever.

I have to say I don't quite get the Brad Penn thing. On paper it is not the best oil, expensive, hard to find and has a high ash content. I truly would like to know what is it that makes it better for 911.
Just an uneducated opinion, I can't say I have looked into it all that deep once I figured out that a little snort of high zinc diesel specific oil with my usual oil put my mind at ease. Put the shopping for oil thing at ease too. YMMV

[kaefer]

Here's more Brad Penn info from a similar post last year:

Here's the spec sheet:
http://www.amref.com/CMSFiles/File/bp_pb/7126_50_44_58_19_BP_PG1_Multigrade_HP_Oils_PB.pdf

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads21/BP1349793062.jpg

[kaefer]

Does the Brad Pen have the ZDDP already in it ?
Thank you all for the replies

Yes.

[86911TLCAB]

doesnt porsche recommend mobil 1 0w 40?

where does one buy zddp?

[racer]

If new to Porsche's, be sure to acquire an online or physical copy of the owners manual. These are older cars and the owners manuals actually give advice on how to maintain your car. Not always the case with newer cars.

That said, I did the 20W50 summer and 10W40 winter routine with the SC.

[matt de maria]

Phosphorous in oil and sulfer in gas are the killers of cat conv's. They bind up on the lattice structure and prevent the storage of o2.
So now the manufacturers are is faced with the issue:
Should I expect to warrantee the cat within 80K or,
do I worry about the longetivity of the engine beyond the warrantee?
Guess which one they are concerned about.
This presents a dilemma for the cat conv car owners especially during the warrantee period. If I have a high mileage 993 that consumes oil (not unusual), do I want to expect to buy a pair of cats versus do I want to rebuild the top end.
The same decision is faced with the watercooled with the additional wrinkle:
The lack of ZDDP has caused extreme wear on the lifter buckets to the point of having them grenade in place and losing the valve keepers.

[smdubovsky]

Chip,
If you run regular Mobile-1, you MUST add ZDDP to protect your cam from wear. They've removed most of the ZDDP from motor-car oils over the past few years

If you're going to keep spouting (ha!) *PLEASE* add a disclaimer every time. The M1 that most 911 owners would use is 15w50. That was *UNAFFECTED* and still has the same levels of zddp it always did. Only the modern high efficiency (=thin) oils had the zinc reduced.

M1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w-40 is also very high zddp. Not marketed as a car oil due to that but popular w/ many high performance car & porsche turbo owners (myself included.)

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

... I get from Magnetic1 (Steve Wong) www.brakeswap.com (http://www.brakeswap.com).

Magnetic1 is ERIC Wong. I think you're confusing him and me when you type :P

I have to say I don't quite get the Brad Penn thing
x2. Its always seemed a poor choice to me but oil = religion. There is no logic.

[Dr K]

If you're going to keep spouting (ha!) *PLEASE* add a disclaimer every time. The M1 that most 911 owners would use is 15w50. That was *UNAFFECTED* and still has the same levels of zddp it always did. Only the modern high efficiency (=thin) oils had the zinc reduced.

M1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w-40 is also very high zddp. Not marketed as a car oil due to that but popular w/ many high performance car & porsche turbo owners (myself included.)

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf
Yes, I've heard that. Thanks for clarifying. The "extended performance" is much easier to find (more available) and has reduced zinc. It isn't listed on your spreadsheet, but I've bought it (gold top instead of red). Even the 15/50 regular has significantly less than racing oil--although they do mention flat tappets in indications for the oil. I've heard (might not be true) that legal level of zinc content for street-driven cars had changed--can anyone confirm or refute?


Magnetic1 is ERIC Wong. I think you're confusing him and me when you type :P Although you don't look alike, in many ways you are similar (but certainly not all)... ;). I think it was a combination of you, and also the Steve Wong of chip fame. Sorry for the slip.

[cmcfaul@aol.com]

20/50 in the winter is no fun. Take forever for oil pressure to come down to allow higher RPMs.

Also, from memory, Mobil One V twin has 1750 ppm zddp. This was the highest of all oils the last time I checked. Also, the Vtwin has a separate trans so the oil appears to be designed for a hot, air cooled engine, with no emissions.....catalytic converter. Not cheap but prob the best for the flat tappet motors

Chris

73 911 E