BMW 325xi

[Patrick3000]

Looking at this ride for the boy, Patrick, who gets his permit in a few weeks. It is a one owner, clean carfax - 2002 325xi with 65k on the clock, air bags and ABS. It passes the kool test for the boy, so he just may keep his paws off of the 14's. Also the kitchen lady ruled out sports cars and wanted something that can handle the snow belt for trips to visit her 89 year old mother.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r250/speedstershop/2_zpscc238bf1.jpg (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/speedstershop/media/2_zpscc238bf1.jpg.html)

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r250/speedstershop/photo-2_zps14677a43.jpg (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/speedstershop/media/photo-2_zps14677a43.jpg.html)

[VaSteve]

Looks just like mine except the wheels.

[HoodPin]

Nice car. But don't know what price is involved. IMHO (humblest, off course...) it might be a bit too nice for a new driver. Plus, I'd be a bit concerned about "Bimmer" shop repair costs. Even though it may not have a lot of miles, its already an 11 year old car.

For the money, I'd be looking at a cheaper, easier/cheaper to repair beater car. I continue to be a big fan of the Ford Focus. Tough, roomy, relatively easy to repair. And with a 2nd set of cheap, skinny wheels with winter tires, its pretty damn capable in the snowy stuff. 2002 4-door model (ZX5) available for $5K and under.

[Jazzbass]

Personally, I like the idea of a low powered BMW for a new driver. They're built like tanks. My neighbor got his kid an old E36 318ti, which I thought was just about perfect.

[John Clay]

I'd prefer newer, with side curtain airbags.

[APKhaos]

Boy + fresh permit + first year of driving = high probability of body damage.

E46 is a rock solid platform, but has a couple of weaknesses. Cooling systems need to be refreshed around this mileage [water pump/thermostat/expansion tank/maybe hoses]. Check carefully for rear subframe cracking. Auto trans is renowned for dumping reverse gear.

Both of my older kids got a year of so in a beater before qualifying for a nice car like this one. Its was roundly beaten by both of them, and died in combat.

[CanAm]

We had an '01 325xi wagon. Really liked it, but after about 40K miles the maintenance/repair costs turned it into a money pit, just one thing after another, so we had to sell it. But our experience may not be representative, so I suggest checking the reliability ratings on the '02.

[roundel]

Kool kid test? When I was 16, I would have been happy to drive a pink Gremlin so long as I was driving. I'll echo the comments about others of body damage being probable for the 1st year or two. I hope to find a Corsica or something similar when my boys are old enough.

[HoodPin]

Kool kid test? When I was 16, I would have been happy to drive a pink Gremlin so long as I was driving. I'll echo the comments about others of body damage being probable for the 1st year or two. I hope to find a Corsica or something similar when my boys are old enough.

Both my sons learned to drive in a 2002 Focus ZX5. They both had wrecks in it.

Son #1's wreck was fixed at a body shop, and he paid for it. And paid for the damage to the other car, too.

Son #2 also wrecked it, causing another car to be totaled in the process. Our insurance covered the other car, and I picked up body parts from the junkyard for the Focus. Was reassembled with Son #2's help, and he's still driving it today.

First car should be disposable. :cool:

[good hands]

Boy + fresh permit + first year of driving = high probability of body damage.



Both of my older kids got a year of so in a beater before qualifying for a nice car like this one. Its was roundly beaten by both of them, and died in combat.

Kool kid test? When I was 16, I would have been happy to drive a pink Gremlin so long as I was driving. I'll echo the comments about others of body damage being probable for the 1st year or two. I hope to find a Corsica or something similar when my boys are old enough.


AMEN X2

I see it every day in my business. I'd say the probability is 60 to 70% a kid beteween the ages of 16 and 20 will have some kind of incident during those years

I'd go for something safe that does not need collision coverage. I'd also tell them if they total it that it will be the last car I will buy . The next one is on them.

[APKhaos]

Look at a 10+ year old Volvo S70. Not too much power, front wheel drive, built like a brick shitehouse. Great transport, mechanically strong, cheap to repair, and lots of cheap body panels.

[Patrick3000]

Thanks for the feed back it has been an interesting search trying to make both Nancy and Patrick happy.

Nice car. But don't know what price is involved. IMHO (humblest, off course...) it might be a bit too nice for a new driver. Plus, I'd be a bit concerned about "Bimmer" shop repair costs. Even though it may not have a lot of miles, its already an 11 year old car.

For the money, I'd be looking at a cheaper, easier/cheaper to repair beater car. I continue to be a big fan of the Ford Focus. Tough, roomy, relatively easy to repair. And with a 2nd set of cheap, skinny wheels with winter tires, its pretty damn capable in the snowy stuff. 2002 4-door model (ZX5) available for $5K and under.

It is a bit nice for a new driver but Nancy will use it as well so nice was a requirement.

If you have ever driven in the snow belt pretty damm capable just does not cut it, AWD is the price of admission. Four feet of snow in April is not out of the question.

Kool kid test? When I was 16, I would have been happy to drive a pink Gremlin so long as I was driving. I'll echo the comments about others of body damage being probable for the 1st year or two. I hope to find a Corsica or something similar when my boys are old enough.

The kool kid test was for dad so the boy keeps his paws off of the 14's

AMEN X2

I see it every day in my business. I'd say the probability is 60 to 70% a kid beteween the ages of 16 and 20 will have some kind of incident during those years.

I'd go for something safe that does not need collision coverage. I'd also tell them if they total it that it will be the last car I will buy . The next one is on them.

If we add him as an occasional drover on the VW with all of the discounts grades, drivers ED etc. the cost of adding collision was only a few hundred more per year and he is covered on all of our cars ;)

[Charlie Stylianos]

I smashed my moms Corolla into the back of a pickup during a light snow storm. I was fuching around. Folks made me pay out of pocket for both (her and truck) repairs. I was 16.

Totaled a Camry when making U-turn and did not see/look for oncoming vehicles. Camry was a wash and folks again made me pay for damage to the other vehicle. 17 y.o.

Lol....school of hard knocks.......

[Dr K]

Thanks for the feed back it has been an interesting search trying to make both Nancy and Patrick happy.

It is a bit nice for a new driver but Nancy will use it as well so nice was a requirement. Tell your wife this is better all around, then do the right thing - get him something less expensive, and after a year sell it and get something better.

If you have ever driven in the snow belt pretty damm capable just does not cut it, AWD is the price of admission. Four feet of snow in April is not out of the question. This won't drive through 4' of snow, either. I had a FWD Audi Fox in the 70s, snow tires (not nearly as good as today's snow tires). Drove through 18" of snow (not plowed but partially packed down) and had to back around entire blocks where 4WD Jeeps had gotten stuck - but I got there. I recommend FWD and "winter tires" even for the snow belt, and put the money you save on gas, cost of the car, etc. into teaching the kid to drive in the snow.

The kool kid test was for dad so the boy keeps his paws off of the 14'sThat's what rules and keys are for!

If we add him as an occasional drover on the VW with all of the discounts grades, drivers ED etc. the cost of adding collision was only a few hundred more per year and he is covered on all of our cars ;)The inexpensive collision coverage will get expensive mightly quickly if you use it once when the boy does something we are all telling you is expensive.

Hey Karl, or should I say "Irfan." Why ask for advice if you're going to ignore ALL of it?

[Patrick3000]

Hey Karl, or should I say "Irfan." Why ask for advice if you're going to ignore ALL of it?

FUD!

[Potomac-Greg]

My daughter is getting her first car (aka I'm getting my daughter her first car), and I'm leaning heavily toward a car that was virtually invisible to me until I started looking. It literally hurts to say it, but the Jeep Patriot is a heck of a value, and has everything you want for a first time driver. First and foremost, it's cheap as dirt. You can have A/C, 6 speed auto trans, power windows and bluetooth for under $19,000 brand new (with warranty). It gets good safety ratings. It's s-l-o-w. To get a kid (or three) to school and to swim/track practice, it's hard to beat. Don't ask me why, but my daughter also likes the way it looks.

No doubt EVERY car in its size class is more sophisticated and polished, and I'm pretty sure it never won a comparo in the car magazines, but the superior cars cost $5-10,000 more when equipped apples-to-apples. Drivetrain is a Hyundai-based 2.0 liter with a legit 6-speed auto trans.

[Casey914]

May I suggest a Mk4 Golf(4 doors) or possibly a B6 Audi. Safe, relatively reliable and rather inexpensive.

[HoodPin]

.......If you have ever driven in the snow belt pretty damm capable just does not cut it, AWD is the price of admission. Four feet of snow in April is not out of the question......

......This won't drive through 4' of snow, either. I had a FWD Audi Fox in the 70s, snow tires (not nearly as good as today's snow tires). Drove through 18" of snow (not plowed but partially packed down) and had to back around entire blocks where 4WD Jeeps had gotten stuck - but I got there. I recommend FWD and "winter tires" even for the snow belt, and put the money you save on gas, cost of the car, etc. into teaching the kid to drive in the snow......

My son's Focus is a beast in the snow when fitted with the 15x5 rims and Vrederstein snows. We had a similar setup on a 1983 Rabbit GTI, and it too would blast through the snow. Don't underestimate narrow rims & proper snow tires on a FWD.

[ausgeflippt951]

Ehem, AWD is not a necessity. I lived in New England for years and have never really needed AWD. Buy an extra set of wheels with snow tires instead.

Our current "snow car", an '05 E46 325i is UNBELIEVABLE in the snow when shod with snow tires. Seriously. I've driven through many a blizzard with that car.

Prior to the BMW I drove a '98 Passat (FWD) and a '95 4Runner. Guaranteed, the Bimmer (and possibly the Passat) are fantastically better in the snow than that 4x4 4Runner.

[Dr K]

Since Ben lives in Cleveland and the Prius with all-seasons was...er...less than safe on the snow, we decided to buy Ben winter tires. We got the highly-rated Michelin X-Ice tires and some spare wheels, BOTH on sale, through Tire Rack, and buying together they mount and balance them for you. One of the wheels had a blemish on the allow (like curb rash, but not) and they offered to either replace or give us half-off on that wheel (the wheels, on sale, were only $70 each). We took the half-off and the entire deal ended up being about $600 for 4 wheels and 4 tires. He leaves them in Mark Hendrickson's garage (PCA instructor - some on the board know him) in the summer. Perhaps that would be out of the way from Silver Spring, though...

[John Clay]

Prior to the BMW I drove a '98 Passat (FWD) and a '95 4Runner. Guaranteed, the Bimmer (and possibly the Passat) are fantastically better in the snow than that 4x4 4Runner.

I've driven a 92 Toyota PU (should be similar to the 4Runner) and a 96 328is in the snow. Only had all season "truck" tires on the PU - never on dedicated winters. Have experienced snow with summers, all-seasons, and winters on the 328. My experience is polar opposite of yours.

[VaSteve]

It rarely snows around here or so it seems. My XI was fantastic in fantastic in the snow. I wouldn't put a teenage boy in a RWD vehicle. All of us here were once teenage boys. Nuff said.

[ausgeflippt951]

I've driven a 92 Toyota PU (should be similar to the 4Runner) and a 96 328is in the snow. Only had all season "truck" tires on the PU - never on dedicated winters. Have experienced snow with summers, all-seasons, and winters on the 328. My experience is polar opposite of yours.

From my experience, the 4Runner was excellent when lumbering along at 15 mph. In the thick stuff, it would go through damn near anything when thrown into 4L.

But get it to highway speeds and the cars are unstable in dry weather...add snowfall and you're taking your life into your hands. In the interests of full disclosure, my 4Runner was a tired, high-mileage beast.



I can see the argument that you don't want to give a 16 y/o a RWD car though.

[94teener]

I have found with new drivers, there most likely WILL be body damage. If one is prepared for that, then one can purchase what one thinks is best for the situation.

[Patrick3000]

We picked this car up a week ago Monday and much to my surprise Nancy really likes the car, almost as much as the boy. He received his instructional permit from the state of Maryland so if you see this thing on the road I would recommend that you leave some of extra room he will definitely need it ;)

The car itself is in nice shape with a few minor issues, one or two sensors need to be replaced that’s about it.

[Jazzbass]

You know those "rookie driver" stickers you see occasionally? Get one. I never understood their need until I started teaching a 16 yr old to drive. People are f**king assholes. Sit at a stop sign 5 sec too long because he's new and takes time to look both ways? Horn, finger from the guy behind. Drive exactly the speed limit down a road? Get cut off. People suck.

[John Clay]

You know those "rookie driver" stickers you see occasionally? Get one. I never understood their need until I started teaching a 16 yr old to drive. People are f**king assholes. Sit at a stop sign 5 sec too long because he's new and takes time to look both ways? Horn, finger from the guy behind. Drive exactly the speed limit down a road? Get cut off. People suck.

I'm more easy going than most on the roads, but I've gotten even more patient with others since "instructing" my 16 year old. Especially when I can see it's a young person droving.

[Potomac-Greg]

I'm more easy going than most on the roads, but I've gotten even more patient with others since "instructing" my 16 year old. Especially when I can see it's a young person droving.

I'm in the same boat. 16 y/o daughter who drives very well, but gets tailgated and harassed.

[zygomatic]

You know those "rookie driver" stickers you see occasionally? Get one. I never understood their need until I started teaching a 16 yr old to drive. People are f**king assholes. Sit at a stop sign 5 sec too long because he's new and takes time to look both ways? Horn, finger from the guy behind. Drive exactly the speed limit down a road? Get cut off. People suck.


Very, very true.

If your son/daughter has that happen, gently remind them that they can always sit through a light or wait a little longer at the stop sign and make that super-important person wait a bit more.

[APKhaos]

We picked this car up a week ago Monday and much to my surprise Nancy really likes the car, almost as much as the boy. He received his instructional permit from the state of Maryland so if you see this thing on the road I would recommend that you leave some of extra room he will definitely need it ;)

The car itself is in nice shape with a few minor issues, one or two sensors need to be replaced that’s about it.

Check out e46fanatics.com Its a great resource. Been really helpful with my son's 328i

[Dr K]

Very, very true.

If your son/daughter has that happen, gently remind them that they can always sit through a light or wait a little longer at the stop sign and make that super-important person wait a bit more.
There's the issue. While we all want to do that when somebody gets behind us like that, I don't think you want to teach your new-driver child to play games with a car.

[HoodPin]

Congrats on the get Karl!

FWIW, consider making some magnetic "STUDENT DRIVER" signs to put on the car during training sessions. I find that info to be very helpful & calming whenever I see it.

[zygomatic]

There's the issue. While we all want to do that when somebody gets behind us like that, I don't think you want to teach your new-driver child to play games with a car.

I'm not sure I'd call the suggestion a game -- that's not quite what I meant. If the new driver is flustered and/or nervous, they should wait. Mr or Mrs Superimportant can go around if they like.

Part of the problem with new drivers being bullied is that they forget they don't HAVE to go if they aren't ready. Pulling out into traffic is always optional. Going faster is a decision that is theirs to make. Letting someone make you go before you're ready (or feel capable of going) is forever a bad decision.

Playing games with the car is telling your kid to put the car in reverse and edge toward the person honking at them. Or waiting 'til the light turns yellow and flooring it through the intersection.

Mostly, if your kid shows the sort of restraint where they can calmly collect themselves at a light and drive without panicking, they're WAY ahead of where I was at 16.

[Dr K]

Very, very true.

If your son/daughter has that happen, gently remind them that they can always sit through a light or wait a little longer at the stop sign and make that super-important person wait a bit more.

I'm not sure I'd call the suggestion a game -- that's not quite what I meant. If the new driver is flustered and/or nervous, they should wait. Mr or Mrs Superimportant can go around if they like.

Part of the problem with new drivers being bullied is that they forget they don't HAVE to go if they aren't ready. Pulling out into traffic is always optional. Going faster is a decision that is theirs to make. Letting someone make you go before you're ready (or feel capable of going) is forever a bad decision.

Playing games with the car is telling your kid to put the car in reverse and edge toward the person honking at them. Or waiting 'til the light turns yellow and flooring it through the intersection.

Mostly, if your kid shows the sort of restraint where they can calmly collect themselves at a light and drive without panicking, they're WAY ahead of where I was at 16.

What you're saying the second time is on the money, but that's not what you said before. Waiting longer at a light is not "calmly collecting themselves"--you suggested making the person behind "wait a bit more" implying doing it on purpose. Not the same, and the first suggestion would be seen by most as playing games.

[Jazzbass]

What you're saying the second time is on the money, but that's not what you said before. Waiting longer at a light is not "calmly collecting themselves"--you suggested making the person behind "wait a bit more" implying doing it on purpose. Not the same, and the first suggestion would be seen by most as playing games.
Hence the clarification.

[turbohugh]

I'm not sure I'd call the suggestion a game -- that's not quite what I meant. If the new driver is flustered and/or nervous, they should wait. Mr or Mrs Superimportant can go around if they like.

Part of the problem with new drivers being bullied is that they forget they don't HAVE to go if they aren't ready. Pulling out into traffic is always optional. Going faster is a decision that is theirs to make. Letting someone make you go before you're ready (or feel capable of going) is forever a bad decision.

Playing games with the car is telling your kid to put the car in reverse and edge toward the person honking at them. Or waiting 'til the light turns yellow and flooring it through the intersection.

Mostly, if your kid shows the sort of restraint where they can calmly collect themselves at a light and drive without panicking, they're WAY ahead of where I was at 16.

Well said, game or not, if you're pressured into a bad decision, you own the consequences ..

[zygomatic]

What you're saying the second time is on the money, but that's not what you said before. Waiting longer at a light is not "calmly collecting themselves"--you suggested making the person behind "wait a bit more" implying doing it on purpose. Not the same, and the first suggestion would be seen by most as playing games.

I could have phrased it better the first time, no question. This is why i don't make my living writing!

[Dr K]

I could have phrased it better the first time, no question. This is why i don't make my living writing!

I could have phrased mine a little nicer, too...

[Jase007]

Nice get Karl.

I bought my first BMW an E30 1990 325Ix 5M in 1993 with 26k miles on it. Still have it with 225k. Great car that has taken me through all kinds of blizzards in Montreal, Pennsylvan-er, VT, ME, etc...

Was very good in the snow but not as good in the DEEP stuff (6" +) like my '84 Cj-7 jeep or '87 Ford Bronco XLT.

DIY maintenance is easy and relatively cheap.

I 2nd checking out e46fanatics.com

[Cliff Claven]

While we all want to do that when somebody gets behind us like that, I don't think you want to teach your new-driver child to play games with a car.

x2! and if you do teach your kids to play games with vehicles, make sure they understand that the guy with the big truck usually wins. i have found i can pull out quickly in front of people when i'm driving my F350 dually and they always slow to avoid me and let me in. i had a client once who took it to another level: some jerk behind him was giving him a hard time, so he put his truck into reverse backed up and smashed into the front of the guy's car, then told the cops and insurance that the guy in back had rear-ended him. but these are games for adults, not kids.

[9toofaresser]

That car is my daily driver - now have 160k on the clock. It drives great and does well in the winter snow. Just watch the alignment on an "xi" model - they will eat through tires very quickly if not aligned properly. The 325xi does not have the rear subframe issues like the regular 325i.

FWIW - bring him out to a few autocross events for "Advanced Driver's Ed" - it helped both my daughters immensely.

Brad

[DrZboczek]

thanks for that very intresting topic