Re-upholstering racing seats?

[ausgeflippt951]

So, I've been wanting to upgrade to a 5- or 6-point harness for a while now, but alas they are not legal when running stock Porsche seats (last time I checked).

My stock Porsche-script cloth sport seats (a very uncommon option for the 'fo-fo, actually!) are in really great shape, and I just can't justify getting rid of them. The rest of my interior is also in great shape and I am not planning on removing it any time soon. I have spent a lot of effort keeping it looking good.


So, here's an alternative: buy a used, structurally-sound racing seat with ripped upholstery (hell, most people can't give them away); usually one of the bolsters winds up going first. Then, recover the seat in similar colors/materials as the stock passenger seat.

I think it'd look a bit more classy/unique than if I just put a boring-black racing seat in my car.



The car will NOT be getting raced, meaning I don't "care" about the FIA sticker or original Nomex upholstery, right? i.e., to my knowledge, there isn't a requirement to keep the sticker on racing seats for mere DE's?


I could use some feedback from you experts.


For a point of reference, this would be the color scheme. Apologies for the crappy quality:

[HoodPin]

Have you considered the Recaro Speed seats (http://www.recaro-automotive.com/us/product-areas-us/aftermarket-seats/product/speed.html). In addition to wide variety of colors (including custom options) are available with proper seat bottom holes for 5/6-point harnesses. Also recline. Also have low bolters at the hinge point, enabling use of OEM 3-point belts. In 2 of our cars, we use a Recaro speed in the driver's seat. When track driving solo, we can use the 5-point harness. If a passenger is in the car, we use the OEM 3-points for both seats.

[Trak Ratt]

I looked into do this a couple years ago. I found the prices high enough to discourage persuing.

[racer]

um.. its a 944.. don't worry about keeping it classy ;)

Sounds like a nice idea, but also a lot of work.

As for the label, I am sure the tech group should want to know whats under there... if for no other reason to assure themselves that it IS an appropriate seat built for harness use. Labels can matter.

While I've never really thought about it, if racing bodies have a time limit for "safety and strength" I see no reason not to apply it on a seat that would be subject to the same amount of impact as racing. Should you have a "moment" and find yourself in an impact, do you really want to hope someone elses old, abused race seat will be up to task? Or worse, if there was a fire, that your seat and carpets burn really quickly?

[ausgeflippt951]

See, but y'all didn't have access to super-cheap upholstery services by a team of hispanic gentemen down in AZ. Seriously though, I was actually thinking of taking it on myself, as project of sorts -- I've reupholstered a seat before...hopefully I can do better a second time around!


As for the safety of it, I'm not sure I agree with that sentiment. A 3-point with an old, stock seat is sufficient for DE (which I'm not sure I agree with anyway), and I wouldn't think twice about using a 5 y/o racing seat (provided it's still in good nick and has no rust). A 15y/o seat, now that's another story entirely... Hell, in many racing groups you can run an older seat and install a back brace.

A racing seat is just steel welded together with some fire-retardant material on it. It can be inspected for wear just like anything else on my 26 y/o car. Honestly, a 914 has more chance of being structurally un-sound than a 10y/o racing seat. I'm probably being too brash though.

[John]

Keep in mind that PCA Potomac requires "equal restraints" for drover and passenger, so if you want to use your 5-points with an instructor in the car, you have to have a similar setup on both sides. Doesn't have to be an exact hardware match, but the restraint system must be comparable. Hence Tony's statement:

When track driving solo, we can use the 5-point harness. If a passenger is in the car, we use the OEM 3-points for both seats.

Also, Tony can get away with using 3-points with his seats. Not all seats that are set up for harnesses will be able to do that.

[ausgeflippt951]

Keep in mind that PCA Potomac requires "equal restraints" for drover and passenger, so if you want to use your 5-points with an instructor in the car, you have to have a similar setup on both sides. Doesn't have to be an exact hardware match, but the restraint system must be comparable. Hence Tony's statement:



Also, Tony can get away with using 3-points with his seats. Not all seats that are set up for harnesses will be able to do that.


Ohh good point -- I hadn't noticed Tony's comment. Does this mean you also can't have dissimilar seats (assuming I would be carrying a passenger)?

Tony, I'll have to check out your seats the next time I see you -- they might be a good solution.

[HoodPin]

Ohh good point -- I hadn't noticed Tony's comment. Does this mean you also can't have dissimilar seats (assuming I would be carrying a passenger)?

Tony, I'll have to check out your seats the next time I see you -- they might be a good solution.

There's a link to the Recaro site in my earlier post. The seats have nice back and thigh bolsters, but dip down where the back meets the base. Accomodates reclining, as well as allowing the OEM 3-point belts to properly work. Hardware available for almost any car to retrofit the OEM buckles to work with the Recaro Speeds. There's actually a number of us using these seats; some driver only and some on both sides. FWIW, if color doesn't become a major issue, the usual black version comes up periodically for sale used. I bought one of our's new; the other was used, at almost half the new cost.

[VaSteve]

Equal restraints means you can have different seats but the same reztraint. 3 points with track seat on one side and stock onthe other is ok. 5 pt on one side and not the other is not.ok.

You can get new covers for sparcos for $169.

[John]

Does this mean you also can't have dissimilar seats (assuming I would be carrying a passenger)?

My understanding is that dissimilar seats are OK, as long as they are properly designed for the restraint type in question (stock belts or 5/6 points) and as long as both driver and passenger are using the same type of restraint.

However, because this is not an official PCA forum, you should direct your question to tech@pcapotomac.org.

[ausgeflippt951]

Those Recaro's have a beige suede option -- perhaps it's a close match? Worth looking into though -- I really dig the look.

Gotta stay classy!

Google Search for Recaros in beige (https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHNV_enUS457US461&sugexp=chrome,mod%3D9&q=recaro+speed+beige&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=_cXYT77pEefA0QX56LH5Aw&biw=1195&bih=739&sei=gMbYT4GtJKmi0QX7y5yJBA)

[Dr K]

Keep in mind that the Recaro Speeds/SRDs/SPDs come with and without the hole for the sub strap. If you go that route (I did for years, bought inexpensively used, sold for about the same) make sure they have the sub strap.

[ausgeflippt951]

Keep in mind that the Recaro Speeds/SRDs/SPDs come with and without the hole for the sub strap. If you go that route (I did for years, bought inexpensively used, sold for about the same) make sure they have the sub strap.


I had seen that, thanks. So you mean I can't just take a knife to the seat pad?! :p

...worked for our LeMons car... :twisted:

[Trak Ratt]

I had seen that, thanks. So you mean I can't just take a knife to the seat pad?! :p

...worked for our LeMons car... :twisted:No not for PCA and I suspect not for LeMons this year.

[ausgeflippt951]

No not for PCA and I suspect not for LeMons this year.

Shame, that would really complete the "classy" look I'm going for. It is a 944, after all... :cool:

[racer]

I've seen the beige Recaros.. they won't go so well with your interior, which appears more white than beige. Given your car's interior has black dash and door tops, I'd go with black.. or black with red piping if you go with the recaro speeds. Also hides some sweat stains better as well.

[ausgeflippt951]

I've seen the beige Recaros.. they won't go so well with your interior, which appears more white than beige. Given your car's interior has black dash and door tops, I'd go with black.. or black with red piping if you go with the recaro speeds. Also hides some sweat stains better as well.

This is a good point...sweat stains are the #1 thing that I am constantly trying to avoid on my stock seats. Holy hell it's a PITA. You make a solid argument.

[HoodPin]

^^ And the Black Recaro Speeds are probably the most readily available, and used FS opportunities come up frequently. Buy one at a time as you find them. IIRC, you will need to use Recaro's sliders, but should be around $75 if needed new. I believe that BK makes an adapter to let you attach the inboard OEM seat buckle stem to the seat.

[ausgeflippt951]

Using sliders is definitely a must for me. Tony, I'm worried that with sliders, it'll push the seat up pretty high -- as it is right now, my stock seats give me *barely* enough space with my helmet on.

Ideally, I'd like to sit lower than I do currently, but the Speeds do look fairly bulky.

Also, does running the Recaro universal sliders require drilling new holes into the floor?

[HoodPin]

Using sliders is definitely a must for me. Tony, I'm worried that with sliders, it'll push the seat up pretty high -- as it is right now, my stock seats give me *barely* enough space with my helmet on.

Ideally, I'd like to sit lower than I do currently, but the Speeds do look fairly bulky.

Also, does running the Recaro universal sliders require drilling new holes into the floor?

First, do your current seats have the height adjustment motors. If so, the Speeds will actually sit quite a bit lower, since you won't be using the motors. The Speeds are more cushy than racing shells, but have less padding than OEM seats, too. If you're current seats don't have height adjustment, than I'm not sure how much you'll gain/loose. You're more than welcome to sit it my car someday.

As far as the sliders, the "matching" sliders from Recaro will match your OEM bolt holes. I believe that most earlier Porsche sliders are the same. However, if you get different sliders 1) if width is the same, should be easy to drill new holes in the slider frame to match the car, or 2) if rails on the slider you get are different width, can probably fab an adapter with steel plate to make up the difference. That's what we did in our LeMons RX7, in order to use a racing seat on the OEM slider (to accomodate different height drivers). We also use a seat back brace that's adjustable.

[John Clay]

I'm on BK mounts with Sparco fixed back pro2000 in my 944. Even at my short height I have to take the seat cushion out to drive with the helmet. I'd really like to get a cushion thats about half as thick as what came with the seat.

[Dr K]

The Reccaro Speeds are comfortable and plenty low. I got my 6', 5" height (and a helmet) into the Targa just fine and drove to and from all tracks, and ON the track (and occasionally off it :roll:) for years. With sliders.

Sunroof coupe you lose >1".

Peter

[ausgeflippt951]

First, do your current seats have the height adjustment motors. If so, the Speeds will actually sit quite a bit lower, since you won't be using the motors. The Speeds are more cushy than racing shells, but have less padding than OEM seats, too. If you're current seats don't have height adjustment, than I'm not sure how much you'll gain/loose. You're more than welcome to sit it my car someday.

As far as the sliders, the "matching" sliders from Recaro will match your OEM bolt holes. I believe that most earlier Porsche sliders are the same. However, if you get different sliders 1) if width is the same, should be easy to drill new holes in the slider frame to match the car, or 2) if rails on the slider you get are different width, can probably fab an adapter with steel plate to make up the difference. That's what we did in our LeMons RX7, in order to use a racing seat on the OEM slider (to accomodate different height drivers). We also use a seat back brace that's adjustable.


Good to know -- my sport seats do have the height adjustment motors. I wish they had made sport seats w/o the height adjustment! I used to have 993 "comfort" seats in my 944 for a short spell, and while the bolstering was significantly lacking, I LOVED how low I sat in the car.

[BlackTalon]

I gained a bit of height (over an inch) when I switched out the stock seats for the Recaros a few years ago, even with sliders.

[HoodPin]

I gained a bit of height (over an inahc) when I switched out the stock seats for the Recaros a few years ago, even with sliders.

I'm guessing your original seats didn't have the height adjusters. I'm definitely sitting lower with the Recaros in my 944.

[BlackTalon]

The Recaros do sit lower. By 'gained a bit of height' I meant for me, not for the seat.

[blipshift]

I looked into do this a couple years ago. I found the prices high enough to discourage persuing.

TR, are you talking hundreds or thousands? How much?

[ausgeflippt951]

I would assume cost would be a few hundred per seat.

[blipshift]

^I was quoted from one shop at $2000 a pair, $1000-$1200 by another, still waiting on another to get back.

[Trak Ratt]

TR, are you talking hundreds or thousands? How much?
Depends on if the manufacturer supports reupholstering. The ones I had sold the material but not the sewing/fitting. By the time everything was said and done more expensive than new seats.

[blipshift]

I'm looking to buy new seats and then having them reupholstered in leather and alcantara for the 997. Looks to be about $1000 cheaper than buying new GT3 996 seats.