Interesting (Durango) problem, even more interesting OBD response

[Dr K]

My Durango has been trouble-free and great since I bought it, but the last 2 weeks have been an issue. 1 miles from my house 15 days ago, the engine began running very roughly, idle slowed down, and I had to press the gas harder to get it to keep up speed. CEL flashed on and off, then on steady but after 30 seconds the car resumed normal driving. Shut off engine and restarted, but CEL still on. Called dealer and brought it in a few hours later--CEL was off when I restarted it later. Drove fine. OBD read history, not current, misfire several cylindars. They did the 90K mile service (it was 89K, and there...) including "treatment" to remove carbon and clean the injectors (3 separate bottles of stuff--do I hear "rip-off"?). After that care driven 4 miles, 4 times, then to BWI and back, and drove perfectly. This morning it did the same thing, again 1 mile from home with a cold engine. Lasted 30-45 seconds, then fine again. Took it to the dealer, and OBD read...normal, no history of issues. We all smelled coolant, and it turns out the radiator has a leak at the top (I hope and believe this is a coincidence). So having the radiator replaced (covered by aftermarket warranty), but still have the engine missing problem.

They suggested driving it until it happened again, with an OBD hooked up - which might mean leaving it with them for a week or two and a huge bill (or they could loan it to one of their mechanics to use as a DD for a week, I suppose). I was thinking if someone would loan me/rent me an OBD reader, I could do that myself.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions. I assume it's not something like a cracked head or it wouldn't get better like it has. Bad computer? Is there a way to check that? My warranty is $100 per service for whatever they fix, so I'm hoping if it IS the computer it would be covered under the same warranty repair...

Peter

[Lupin..the..3rd]

They suggested driving it until it happened again, with an OBD hooked up
This doesn't make sense to me. It should retain the codes until they are manually retrieved and cleared. It doesn't matter if the CEL goes away on its own, the code is still stored in the computer, and it's there until you manually clear it. At least that's been true of all the Bosch Motronic cars I've touched.

[BlackTalon]

Surely there are forums speciailizing in the Durangos. Search for one and then do some research. I had an intermittent fuel issue on the Volvo a couple months ago that turned out to be a plastic sensor. The forums had loads of info on what the likely issue was, recommendations on where to buy the part (hint: it is ~35% of the Volvo cost if you purchase at a Land Rover dealership!), and some posts full of pics showing the replacement procedure.

Best to go to forums focusing on the type of vehicle in question whenever possible.

[APKhaos]

^ +1
Find a good.Durango.forum.
Ive found solutions and great info on the MB and LandCruiser forums I use.
Some.basic research should demystify your.problem.

[bordin34]

try moparts.com . They are a mopar forum, mostly older stuff but they should know.

[racer]

Google found these...

http://www.durangoforumz.com/
http://dodgeforum.com/forum/
http://www.durangoclub.com/forum/

What year is your Durango? What engine?

[Vicegrip]

Surely there are forums speciailizing in the Durangos. Search for one and then do some research. I had an intermittent fuel issue on the Volvo a couple months ago that turned out to be a plastic sensor. The forums had loads of info on what the likely issue was, recommendations on where to buy the part (hint: it is ~35% of the Volvo cost if you purchase at a Land Rover dealership!), and some posts full of pics showing the replacement procedure.

Best to go to forums focusing on the type of vehicle in question whenever possible.Don't call him Shirley

[VaSteve]

A cheapo OBD reader is like $60. It will pay for itself in the first use.

[Dr K]

George - I, too, thought the code should be retained. That's why it's interesting.
I'll try a reader
Yes, I'll look on the forums. Haven't had much luck there in the past. But I'll try again.
Thanks, Guys!
Peter

[Vicegrip]

"mutiple missfire" was pulled from the original code read. not all codes lead to a single point. Might be worth going through all the conectors and checking wiring for damage. More than once I have traced odd code / no code issues to conectors or cooked / pinched wiring. No cost other than time too.

[roundel]

The fact that it happens a mile from home each time points toward a location issue. Have you been wading through a deep river while the misfire is happening per chance?

[tdatk]

Try swapping in a different battery, could be a cracked plate/post issue and low volts wont throw a code. My wifes old PT cruiser did some weird shit when the battery was on the way out.

[Landjet]

Sounds like an issue when the motor/ECU changes from cold start to warmed up car. What systems are in play during that time?

[pjalexandre]

The EGR and PCV valves on the 4.7 and Hemi are known problem areas. Rough idle, no power, etc.

You should have a code stored. the code is P0406 for egr.

At lot of folks are replacing them preventatively at 60K miles.


My Durango has been trouble-free and great since I bought it, but the last 2 weeks have been an issue. 1 miles from my house 15 days ago, the engine began running very roughly, idle slowed down, and I had to press the gas harder to get it to keep up speed. CEL flashed on and off, then on steady but after 30 seconds the car resumed normal driving. Shut off engine and restarted, but CEL still on. Called dealer and brought it in a few hours later--CEL was off when I restarted it later. Drove fine. OBD read history, not current, misfire several cylindars. They did the 90K mile service (it was 89K, and there...) including "treatment" to remove carbon and clean the injectors (3 separate bottles of stuff--do I hear "rip-off"?). After that care driven 4 miles, 4 times, then to BWI and back, and drove perfectly. This morning it did the same thing, again 1 mile from home with a cold engine. Lasted 30-45 seconds, then fine again. Took it to the dealer, and OBD read...normal, no history of issues. We all smelled coolant, and it turns out the radiator has a leak at the top (I hope and believe this is a coincidence). So having the radiator replaced (covered by aftermarket warranty), but still have the engine missing problem.

They suggested driving it until it happened again, with an OBD hooked up - which might mean leaving it with them for a week or two and a huge bill (or they could loan it to one of their mechanics to use as a DD for a week, I suppose). I was thinking if someone would loan me/rent me an OBD reader, I could do that myself.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions. I assume it's not something like a cracked head or it wouldn't get better like it has. Bad computer? Is there a way to check that? My warranty is $100 per service for whatever they fix, so I'm hoping if it IS the computer it would be covered under the same warranty repair...

Peter

[Dr K]

Kurt: Thanks - will do.
Bob: Going different directions. And the gully was flooded only on one of those trips... ;)
Tim: Battery is 18 months old, no issues (likely too new to be used up, too old to be defective). I'll check running voltage while driving. I'll also be running an OBD reader while driving - perhaps that will shed light on the situation. Thanks to the Dorki who's loaning me one with live read.
Larry: Good point. I have no idea but perhaps someone else could suggest something.

[Dr K]

Paul: Thanks - I replaced the EGR valve about a year ago. Haven't replace the PCV - will find out if it was done with the dealer-performed 90K service (done between the 2 episodes of low power). If not, I'll replace it but doubt PCV could cause serious but sporadic issue like this.

[HoodPin]

X2 on the system changes when transitioning from cold to hot running.

Peter, you can borrow my Code Reader. IIRC it even has a live read/monitor capability though I've never used it that way. I'm not sure where it's instructions are, but should be readily available online. Call me if you want to borrow.

[cmartin]

doubt PCV could cause serious but sporadic issue like this


You might rethink this. False/unmetered air will cause issues. Rather than guess, troubleshoot and inspect.

[Dr K]

Drove the car to NC this afternoon with Ben, running a live code reading. It threw a P0420 code. When we stopped for a snack I found the special Chrysler codes and it also threw a "transmission" code P0004.

P0420: Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1) (http://www.obd-codes.com/p0420)
P0004: fuel volume regulator control circuit high

Car did NOT lose power, and in fact we got 20.2 MPG for the trip! We cleared the codes and it threw the P0420 again about 2-1/2 hours later.


PCV not in stock at local shops, but I'll check down here (lots of Dodge trucks) and replace if I can find it. Also, Ben and I are going to go over the wiring, ESPECIALLY to the O2 sensors since the problem is intermittent. Ben reminded me we had similar intermittent loss of power and rough running in the Carrera while driving in Nova Scotia, which turned out to be a loose connection to the O2 sensor.

Tony, thanks for the offer, but I borrowed one already (obviously), and we're going to buy one because it is SO HELPFUL.



EDIT: A site on line that I just found said the P0004 is a "phantom code" -- it is reserved only for diesel engines, and my car doesn't even have a fuel volume regulator. But the "expert" on the site also said to check with the dealer for the reading on the Factory OBD reader, as it might also be an error on the generic device I used. But he also said to reset the PCM by disconnecting the battery and holding it to the positive lead for 30 seconds. Of course, I was able to clear both codes with the reader, but as I said, the P0420 came back...

[Trak Ratt]

Cat starting to fail? Had one fall apart so bad it blocked the muffler and the car wouldn't start. Had to replace the entire systems from the cat all the way back to the tailpipe tip.

[Vicegrip]

Po420 code is overdue joint roll service.

[Trak Ratt]

^ Does anyone offer road service for that...

http://www.artcornwall.org/features/Arlo_Guthrie_and_the_Red_VW_Microbus_from_Alice_s_ Restaurant.jpg

[Dr K]

Po420 code is overdue joint roll service.

Not sure I get the relationship... :?

[Trak Ratt]

^

http://img1.ak.crunchyroll.com/i/spire1/223d3b92c2474ac8d757c6885c6912721269821488_full.pn g

[Dr K]

But why is is Po420?

[pjalexandre]

But why is is Po420?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+is+%22420%22+connection+to+pot


Sorry :)

[Dr K]

Thanks :oops:

I did a search on Po420 and only got the OBD codes on the first 2 pages... Guess I should have done Pot420--2nd hit!

[Vicegrip]

my work is done here.....

[Landjet]

Funny, my Porsche threw a 420 code yesterday as well. Since we found out my alternator is giving up the ghost, hopefully the 420 is an electric phantom, and hopefully the alternator is the hidden cause for the limp mode turbo problem I've been having.

[Vicegrip]

420 can cause a Limp Turbo and greatly increased fuel consumption.

[Landjet]

You sound like a man with some experience.

[Trak Ratt]

You sound like a man with some experience.
http://www.blastam.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/HFI-Usability-Button-User-Experience-SEO.jpg

[Dr K]

420 can cause a Limp Turbo and greatly increased fuel consumption.

:D :D :D p

[Lupin..the..3rd]

I think you need to adjust the unterdruckgesteuerten beschleunigungsanreicherung.