Potential 944-Purchaser Needs Advice

[jvns1022]

Hello, I am new to Dorkiphus in hopes that I will purchase a 944 soon. After doing a lot of homework I have decided on the 83-85.5 version to keep things cheaper. I just wanted to get everyone's take on a 944 that I am thinking about purchasing. I would appreciate anyone's thoughts on the below info that the owner has provided me. I have been looking on the internet and I don't believe that there is a Porsche shop in the area that could do a PPI (car is located in New York-5-6 hours away). I plan on tracking the car starting with some simple safety modifications - seats/harnesses/rollbar. Thanks in advance and I hope to maybe meet some of you 944 owners in the near future.

1984 Porsche 944 - owner is asking for $6500
97,000 miles
-2Nd Owner, Non-smoker, Stored for winter (never seen snow) Very clean interior, Well maintained, Runs & drives great, Good tires, New paint (2yrs ago),This car has been babied , must see and drive to appreciate.
-The Timing Belt, water pump, radiator, and air conditioning components as well as front and rear brakes and rotors were all performed Feb or March of 2007( less than 1,000 miles ago)I have the receipts for the work performed. Vestal Import replaced the clutch master cylinder 10/2006 and last summer Schultz Service in Vestal replaced the alternator. Paint was replaced due to fading (two years ago). Just put in new battery.
-Since my friend moved to PA I have been using Schultz’s Vestal Service Center almost exclusively. Jerry, the owner works on all makes of vehicles but appears to have a pretty good background on the 944. I can tell you this one starts and runs very well and does not leak any fluids. It performs better once it warms up but it does not misfire or idle improperly at any time. It appears operate best at higher rpms .

[jvns1022]

Here is the link for the car:

http://autotrader.autos.msn.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=279642594&dealer_id=65292465&car_year=1984&rdm=1274729843053&lastStartYear=1981&model=944&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=used&distance=300&marketZipError=false&color3=&color2=&search_lang=en&sownerid=72415&showZipError=n&make=POR&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=mileageASC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=100000&style_flag=1&sort_type=mileageASC&address=22102&advanced=y&end_year=1987&doors=&transmission=Manual&max_price=&cardist=226&standard=false&rdpage=thumb

[John]

First of all, welcome to the board. Hope you've got thick skin, especially since you're interested in 944s. There is a lot of good 944 knowledge here, but the FEWC crowd definitely takes a lot of sh*t around here for our choice of automobile.

Out of curiosity, what about the first gen cars makes them cheaper? I know both have their strengths and weaknesses, but I'm not aware of anything specific that makes one version less expensive to run than another. They're all hopeless money pits. ;)

I don't have a lot of time right now, but number one, you definitely want a PPI. And number two, keep in mind that the early cars had 5 digit odometers, so that 97,000 may or may not be true. Thirdly, any information on whether the car still has the original clutch? In my opinion, unless that car is truly pristine, and has full documentation of all work, including a new-ish spring-centered clutch, it is overpriced.

Be sure to check out www.clarks-garage.com if you haven't already. It is one of the best sources for 944 info on the Interwebs.

There's lots, LOTS more, and I'm sure others will chime in. Either way, welcome, and best of luck finding a car.

Oh, and since someone will bring it up, put your first name in your signature so we know who we're talking to.

[Darryl]

John P said it pretty good. It looks as though the owner is asking a premium for this car due to the mileage (assuming it is correct), and looks like it may be in pretty decent shape. Someone added phone dial rims which were not on the early cars and since they mention no snow, non-smoker, etc, they're selling this as a "nice car".

Since you're looking to track it, I'd be less concerned about finding a "nice car" and more concerned about getting one mechanically sound as the bills can add up quickly when you start doing mods for the track. You should be able to find something much cheaper.

- Darryl

[smo]

John P said it pretty good. It looks as though the owner is asking a premium for this car due to the mileage (assuming it is correct), and looks like it may be in pretty decent shape. Someone added phone dial rims which were not on the early cars and since they mention no snow, non-smoker, etc, they're selling this as a "nice car".

Since you're looking to track it, I'd be less concerned about finding a "nice car" and more concerned about getting one mechanically sound as the bills can add up quickly when you start doing mods for the track. You should be able to find something much cheaper.

- Darryl

+1 on everything they said, keep looking for a better deal...

[BlackTalon]

The track debut of many 944s has results in a return home via flatbed due to spun #2 bearing. And clutch replacement takes a lot of time and/ or $$. So finding one w/ a relatively new clutch and motor that's been made more track-worthy should be #1 on the list.

[VaSteve]

WAY too much money for a first gen car. Or a seconf gen, really.

I'll look at the ad when I get home, but that's redunkulous.

[jvns1022]

John, I had heard/read that the 83-85.5 model might be a little cheaper when it came to repairs.....not sure if this was just due to the cheaper control arms or one of the other differences between the two sets of years. My priority is mostly to find a 2.5L whether it is an 83 or an 86 or something in between. I hear ya on the premium price. It seemed a little higher compared to others I found in my searches, but it seems as though I can't find one with both lower miles and documented repairs for the timing belt and water pump, etc. I am waiting to hear back from the seller about the clutch. I will advise.

If the asking price is too expensive....what would you guys suggest would be more appropriate? And what price range should I be aiming for, for a decent weekend fun and beginner track car? How many miles is too many?

Thanks for all the input!

[jvns1022]

Ok, the seller says he has no idea when the clutch was last replaced. Not since he purchased it anyway. If I could get him to come down $1000 would $5500 still be too much money for this car....assuming that it is in good condition inside/out?

[VaSteve]

At that age it all comes down to maintenance....how is iut maintained. The control arms are wear items (sort of) but I wouldn't base a decision solely on that! You. Don't replace them that much and everything else costs the same.

IIRC first gen interior has about an inch of space more WRT the steering wheel if you're tall. I've had no issues with my two late models... I'm 6' tall.

[Paddy]

Josh,

I have a really well sorted 1987 944 for sale and am somewhat flexible on price.

http://dorkiphus.net/porsche/showthread.php?t=20354

[RENN 951]

You can find current pricing info here: http://www.excellence-mag.com/resources/buyers_guide/241500240

In Vestal NY you could get John Hajny, http://www.redlinerennsport.com/Index.html to do the PPI; he certainly knows 944's.

You really shouldn't have to go that far away to find a nice early 944, however.

[jvns1022]

PatFat, I was interested in your car but saw the high mileage. I think I would like to take a look anyway. All that maintenance you've had done sounds good. Looks like I wont buy this car in NY unless the guy will come down in price. Can you hit me up at jvns1022@gmail.com with a phone number?

[Dr K]

I would definitely look at Patrick's car. No one has mentioned it, but these cars are not meant to sit. A car in the north that has never seen snow may have sat in the garage for 5-6 months/year, and hoses and other rubber/plastic parts might have been injured by not being driven.

[Trak Ratt]

Long term you will be much happier with an '85.5 or newer car. $6.5K seems like top money for an early '44. Take your time and find a nice '85.5 or newer car with all the regular stuff up dated.

[Potomac-Greg]

Be open to anything from 83 to 88. There's not enough difference to base a decision on the model year. Get a PPI. Get a PPI. Drive at least 3 of them. If you want to drive mine as a comparison, let me know (I live in Rockville, work in Tysons). It's good to learn what's weird, what's normal, and what's normally weird about these cars.

The rule of thumb is that all 944s are $6,000. Whatever you don't pay the seller, you pay the repair shop. Hold out for one that you can confirm as solid. Transmission, engine seals, clutch, steering rack. And if you're not handy in the garage, you will be. My strategy with that car you mention is to settle in the $4-5K range BUT only if he can prove that it's not 197,000 miles, AND the car checks out with no significant issues. I've got a 1988 with 76,000 (legit) miles and I doubt I could get $6,500. No way that car is worth that much. And get a PPI.

Good luck. They're great cars, relatively simple, and they have fantastic aftermarket support.

[racer]

imho, if you are not going to do the work yourself, all 944's are $10K cars.. as mentioned, there are several big ticket items that can fail

1) clutch.. shop charge to replace is about 8-10hrs plus parts.. about $1500-$2K I would guess

2) Steering system. Haven't had an issue yet, but Potomac Greg just had his done iirc, and it was pricey.. I'd guess about the same as a clutch job?

3) Seems like you know about the belts/hoses/wp issues.. again, for a shop, figure $1K.

If you are looking to track or potentially race the car, consider finding one that's also had $800-$2K in suspension work already done as well.

See ? there are no cheap porsches afterall.

I would be sure to sit/drive some examples of early vs late dash.. imho, the later dash is just a better design and affords a bit more leg room. It also looks less "VW" in appearance and more 928.

Don't overlook the '87-88 924S as well.. Narrower body, early dash, but same "powerful" 2.5l motor ;)

Get a PPI.. Really bone up on your 944 model knowledge.

[Potomac-Greg]

2) Steering system. Haven't had an issue yet, but Potomac Greg just had his done iirc, and it was pricey.. I'd guess about the same as a clutch job?


It is perhaps the one thing I have NOT done. I think that's one thing I'd tackle myself.

[RedOctober]

If you are looking to track or potentially race the car, consider finding one that's also had $800-$2K in suspension work already done as well.



Oh come now.....rob him of the joy of doing the torsion bar kabuki dance himself? :vomit:

[VaSteve]

Oh come now.....rob him of the joy of doing the torsion bar kabuki dance himself? :vomit:



How did you get your car back together?

[RedOctober]

How did you get your car back together?

Had the press the wifey into action after John P came by for a first try. Once I knew what to do, it was trial and error time (because I was too stupid to take the correct measurements before you helped me rip everything out). I think the grand total was 3 tries to get it right. All in all, with my experience, I was thrilled with that.

But there was a LOT of beating and banging with a rubber mallet on the knuckle that connects nearest the door. That, and I didn't put any grease on the delrin.....so now when they're wet, you can hear me squeaking from a mile away. :roll:

[racer]

Here is the link for the car:

http://autotrader.autos.msn.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=279642594&dealer_id=65292465&car_year=1984&rdm=1274729843053&lastStartYear=1981&model=944&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=used&distance=300&marketZipError=false&color3=&color2=&search_lang=en&sownerid=72415&showZipError=n&make=POR&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=mileageASC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=100000&style_flag=1&sort_type=mileageASC&address=22102&advanced=y&end_year=1987&doors=&transmission=Manual&max_price=&cardist=226&standard=false&rdpage=thumb


Photo #2, looks like it has a black dash cap.. on a brown dash.. which tells me its likely cracked to pieces under there. Dashes can be replaced, but really, its a big PITA, hence the cover.

I'm not sure why a "low mile" example would have really needed a repaint either.. Drivers seat seem is split along the right side too.. This is NOT a $6500 944.

[jvns1022]

Thanks for all the info guys! I never even noticed that rip in the seat! With the repaint, the ripped seat, and the replaced dash, it sounds like there is a good possibility that the car has 197,000 miles. I am going to mention all of this to the seller and see if he doesn't come down to the $4k-5k price range. But it sounds like from everyone that I want to look for a 85.5 model. Thanks for info on the Redline guy in Vestal. It doesn't look like I am going to buy this 944 after all so if anyone else has one for sale, please let me know.

[Potomac-Greg]

But it sounds like from everyone that I want to look for a 85.5 model.

Again, don't worry about the year unless you really prefer the new-look interior. Interior deterioration (cracked dash and seats) happens to the early and late 944s.

[N Fotouhi]

A mint low mileage 8 valve 44 with all the maintanence up to date is worth no more than $3K. Sounds like a $1000-1500 car to me.

[Potomac-Greg]

A mint low mileage 8 valve 44 with all the maintanence up to date is worth no more than $3K. Sounds like a $1000-1500 car to me.

I must acknowledge my bias, as owner of a "mint, low mileage, 8 valve 44 with all the maintenance up to date" but I think someone would be hard pressed to close a deal on such a car at such a price.

[Dr K]

A mint low mileage 8 valve 44 with all the maintanence up to date is worth no more than $3K. Sounds like a $1000-1500 car to me.

I must acknowledge my bias, as owner of a "mint, low mileage, 8 valve 44 with all the maintenance up to date" but I think someone would be hard pressed to close a deal on such a car at such a price.
The point is, this is NOT a car to go all the way to NY to buy. Don't negotiate with the seller--you're way, way too far apart. Keep looking and pass on the car that started this thread. There are lots out there, and I suspect almost all of them will, in the end, cost less than this one.

[VaSteve]

Wemple just got one at that price :). It WAS cherry till he blowed up the motor.

[Potomac-Greg]

The point is, this is NOT a car to go all the way to NY to buy. Don't negotiate with the seller--you're way, way too far apart. Keep looking and pass on the car that started this thread. There are lots out there, and I suspect almost all of them will, in the end, cost less than this one.

Agreed. No reason to rush, and there are LOTS other options. Local Craigslist always has 3 or 4.

[KevinOyler]

If you are set on the first generation 944, do not look for a low milage car. Look for one with higher milage that has had the clutch replaced and the engine rebuilt. And if you're after a track car, look for one that has been set up for the track already. They are almost always cheaper than doing it yourself. But before you buy, if you are on a limited budget, you should know the costs of tracking a car. Buying the car is just the first outlay. You will need a steady stream of funds to replace wear parts and pay fees to participate, even with a sound car. Are you able and willing to work on the car yourself?

[BlackTalon]

If you are set on the first generation 944, do not look for a low milage car. Look for one with higher milage that has had the clutch replaced and the engine rebuilt. And if you're after a track car, look for one that has been set up for the track already. They are almost always cheaper than doing it yourself. But before you buy, if you are on a limited budget, you should know the costs of tracking a car. Buying the car is just the first outlay. You will need a steady stream of funds to replace wear parts and pay fees to participate, even with a sound car. Are you able and willing to work on the car yourself?Don't listen to Kevin -- 944s are a cheap way of enjoying the track! :lol:

[Jazzbass]

Don't listen to Kevin -- 944s are a cheap way of enjoying the track! :lol:
That's just plain mean. :lol:

[Trak Ratt]

That's just plain mean. :lol:
X2 :lol:

fixed ;)
Don't listen to Kevin -- 944s are a cheap way to start spending future income! :lol:

[9toofaresser]

The 924S is a good option also - has the 944 engine but the lighter 924 body.
I bought mine for $1500 but it needed a new clutch. I don't even want to admit
how much money I have spent prepping and upgrading.
Heck, I would sell you my track prepped 924S for $6,500 in a heartbeat!

[jvns1022]

I am def not set on the first gen 944. I am mostly just looking for a 2.5L n/a. I am def able and willing to work on the car myself but it would be a steep learning curve b/c I have only ever messed with the basics....oil changes/CAI install/brakes/pedals and other smaller things that break. But it doesn't mean that I don't want to learn and do everything that I can. As far as setting up the car for the track, I was planning on doing the minimum until funds replenished so I would first get roll bar/seats/harnesses/oil baffle. This would be in addition to checking out the brakes and tires, etc. Is there anything else that is a NECESSITY before hitting the track? I will be lucky if I can make it to the track once a month so I am hoping that pads and tires wont wear too quick until I get more into it.

[jvns1022]

Hey Brad, I appreciate the offer, but I am definitely looking for the 944. Thanks anyway though. I also want to feel SOME of the joy myself of spending hundreds(thousands?) of dollars to track-prep the car :D. Not all, but some.

[Potomac-Greg]

I am def not set on the first gen 944. I am mostly just looking for a 2.5L n/a. I am def able and willing to work on the car myself but it would be a steep learning curve b/c I have only ever messed with the basics....oil changes/CAI install/brakes/pedals and other smaller things that break. But it doesn't mean that I don't want to learn and do everything that I can. As far as setting up the car for the track, I was planning on doing the minimum until funds replenished so I would first get roll bar/seats/harnesses/oil baffle. This would be in addition to checking out the brakes and tires, etc. Is there anything else that is a NECESSITY before hitting the track? I will be lucky if I can make it to the track once a month so I am hoping that pads and tires wont wear too quick until I get more into it.

You really only NEED to worry about brakes and tires. But you would like to have fresh shocks and the suspension in general should be solid enough to stay in one piece. The oil pan baffle may help (nobody really knows what causes the oil starvation that leads to the #2 bearing failure, or what definitively stops it from happening). Personally, I just make sure the oil it absolutely topped off all the time.

[Paddy]

Another plug for my car:

Brand new parts:

Factory turbo motor mounts
Water pump
Rollers
Belts
hoses
Front seals
Rod bearings
Wheel bearings
A-Arms- upgraded bushings
New Koni inserts, bump stops, boots lowering springs
Turbo sways w/ delrin bushings
All new shifter components
New windshield- $700 :bang:

No stories, no issues, ready for track duty.

[jvns1022]

I just spoke to the seller of the car that I originally posted about and voiced the stuff that everyone hear had brought up (just to see where it might go). I told him that knowing the life of the clutch was a major concern and that $6500 was too much, and pointed out the ripped seat, dash mat, non-original wheels and paint job. He basically asked me how much I thought the car was worth and I told him $6000 minus the cost of a clutch job. He didn't balk at the idea but neither did we mention an actual final price. So my question is would $5000 be a reasonable price to pay for this car...after having a PPI peformed by John Hajnay (thanks Renn951)? If yes, I am NOT implying that I will still by this 944....just learning as much as I can....

[HoodPin]

I just spoke to the seller of the car that I originally posted about and voiced the stuff that everyone hear had brought up (just to see where it might go). I told him that knowing the life of the clutch was a major concern and that $6500 was too much, and pointed out the ripped seat, dash mat, non-original wheels and paint job. He basically asked me how much I thought the car was worth and I told him $6000 minus the cost of a clutch job. He didn't balk at the idea but neither did we mention an actual final price. So my question is would $5000 be a reasonable price to pay for this car...after having a PPI peformed by John Hajnay (thanks Renn951)? If yes, I am NOT implying that I will still by this 944....just learning as much as I can....

A clutch job will run more than $1K. More like $1.5K to $2K, depending upon where you have it done.

[jvns1022]

Thanks for the clutch-job pricing info!

[RENN 951]

It's too early to decide on a price until after the PPI, because the PPI will give you a full list of potential maintenance needs and estimated costs. Then you can negotiate downward based on that info. At least the owner seems open to negotiation. The PPI could cost you $100-$200, and it's something YOU pay for, not the seller.

At this point you haven't even seen the car in person to make an assessment of whether you actually want to pay for a PPI. If this was a "special" Porsche model it would be understandable to make a long distance purchase like this, but believe me there are plenty of nice 944's here locally from which you can choose.

[VaSteve]

Seriously. I looked at the photos last night, there's nothing (incl the color) that would make me take a secomd look.

Have you ever driven one of these?

[Dr K]

...is would $5000 be a reasonable price to pay for this car...after having a PPI peformed...NO! Why are you still considering this car? Buy one that has had the above list of stuff done to is already.

[Potomac-Greg]

I just spoke to the seller of the car that I originally posted about and voiced the stuff that everyone hear had brought up (just to see where it might go). I told him that knowing the life of the clutch was a major concern and that $6500 was too much, and pointed out the ripped seat, dash mat, non-original wheels and paint job. He basically asked me how much I thought the car was worth and I told him $6000 minus the cost of a clutch job. He didn't balk at the idea but neither did we mention an actual final price. So my question is would $5000 be a reasonable price to pay for this car...after having a PPI peformed by John Hajnay (thanks Renn951)? If yes, I am NOT implying that I will still by this 944....just learning as much as I can....

As noted, budget $2,000 for the clutch. And IF the car is really low miles and IF there is nothing else materially wrong with it, THEN it might be worth $4,000, but if the guy does not have maintenance records (thus not knowing how old the clutch is) then you need even more protection on the downside. I would start at $3,400 subject to prebuy. Or just buy a righteous car from someone here who will have to look you in the eye at the monthly PCA event!

[Jazzbass]

So my question is would $5000 be a reasonable price to pay for this car...after having a PPI peformed by John Hajnay (thanks Renn951)? If yes, I am NOT implying that I will still by this 944....just learning as much as I can....

Reread this until it sinks in:

A mint low mileage 8 valve 44 with all the maintanence up to date is worth no more than $3K. Sounds like a $1000-1500 car to me.

This is from a 944 guy. He owns one and tracks it. Paying $5000 for an early 944 that needs work is lunacy.

[HoodPin]

X2 on looking for a local track worthy car. They come up pretty regularly. This one in NY seems to be more trouble than its worth for intended use.

[jvns1022]

DONE. I will no longer be considering this NY 944. Thanks for all the help! I really do appreciate the bluntness in this last page of replies. That is what I was looking for when originally posting. I have been contacted with a couple of great sounding 944s for sale from guys that will have to look me in the eye at the monthly PCA events and will be considering their cars. ;)

Let me know if anyone else is looking to part with theirs!

[Dr K]

Don't forget suspension refresh on a 25-year-old car. Those bushings are done if they haven't been replaced already.

[Potomac-Greg]

DONE. I will no longer be considering this NY 944. Thanks for all the help! I really do appreciate the bluntness in this last page of replies.

If you give this forum the opportunity to slam a 944, you'll never be disappointed! They all suck, except for the ones they're trying to sell you!

[LPM911]

you mention that you plan on tracking the car, but it is only going to be a track car or are you looking at a 944 for daily driving? a little more details about your intended use of the car might help us point you towards potential cars.

[jvns1022]

I am looking for a 944 that I can drive to work/weekends in nice weather but that I can also take on the track as often as I can make it. My initial end goal was something with good suspension, seats, harnesses, rollbar. And then picking up a second set of wheels/tires down the road. I have been to a few driving schools but have never been on the track in my own car. I was looking to change this but I don't have the funds to commit to a truck and trailer and I wouldn't want to be restricted to only driving the car at the track. Hope this helps.

[Lupin..the..3rd]

I am looking for a 944 that I can drive to work/weekends in nice weather but that I can also take on the track as often as I can make it. My initial end goal was something with good suspension, seats, harnesses, rollbar.
Ah, so basically you want a street-legal 944 race car that's comfortable and reliable. Got it.

:lol: :lol:... oh yeah, also, :lol:.

[Potomac-Greg]

Ah, so basically you want a street-legal 944 race car that's comfortable and reliable. Got it.

:lol: :lol:... oh yeah, also, :lol:.

Josh:

Always check the signature lines when you read stuff like this. It helps you to understand the writer's "preferences." :D

[Jazzbass]

If you give this forum the opportunity to slam a 944, you'll never be disappointed! They all suck, except for the ones they're trying to sell you!
Oh, Christ :roll:

Give the Dorki-hates-944s shtick a break for a while, ffs. This guy has gotten good, solid advice - almost exclusively from guys that have owned, wrenched on and tracked 944s for years. You spout this crap off CONSTANTLY and now the n00bs think this info/advice is all BS, which it isn't. This board has many experienced 944 owners, and precious few 19-yr-old-living-in-mommy's-basement types like you find on the other boards. Stop whining about how they hurt your 944 feelings and listen - you might learn something, too.

[Potomac-Greg]

Oh, Christ :roll:

Give the Dorki-hates-944s shtick a break for a while, ffs. This guy has gotten good, solid advice - almost exclusively from guys that have owned, wrenched on and tracked 944s for years. You spout this crap off CONSTANTLY and now the n00bs think this info/advice is all BS, which it isn't. This board has many experienced 944 owners, and precious few 19-yr-old-living-in-mommy's-basement types like you find on the other boards. Stop whining about how they hurt your 944 feelings and listen - you might learn something, too.

You're being mean and vindictive 'cause I own a 944.

Lighten up coach. I like the board and get along with everyone here. Well almost everyone. I love the 944 abuse. I give it and take it. That's how teh board works doesn't it?

I'm 49 years old and have the bitchin'-est 944 on the planet.

Maybe I need to use more smileys. ;-)

[VaSteve]

Ah, so basically you want a street-legal 944 race car that's comfortable and reliable. Got it.

:lol: :lol:... oh yeah, also, :lol:.

Its possible. Mine is all that and a bag of chips (I spilled one on the way back from mid ohio and with the cage I can't reach them all!). In all seriousness, you'd have to go really nuts on the suspension or safety to make unstreetable. I have done 7 hour drives in mine. In fact I prefer longer drives since its a PITFA to get in and out with the seats/bars and what not. Once you're in, the ergonomics are excellent. They are nice competent cars. Easy to drive, a little harder to wrench on than a 911, parts are *slighltly* cheaper, but they are a little more fragile than a 911 for the track...but I've seen plenty of both broken.

[Patrick3000]

I am looking for a 944 that I can drive to work/weekends in nice weather but that I can also take on the track as often as I can make it. My initial end goal was something with good suspension, seats, harnesses, rollbar. And then picking up a second set of wheels/tires down the road. I have been to a few driving schools but have never been on the track in my own car. I was looking to change this but I don't have the funds to commit to a truck and trailer and I wouldn't want to be restricted to only driving the car at the track. Hope this helps.

If this is what you are looking for consider an 89-90 944S2

[jvns1022]

Thanks for the tip Greg! I should have been more aware of the signature line. I was warned, but forgot, that a 944 vs. 911 battle would eventually ensue when I started this post. It's all good. :D

[Jase007]

There is no "battle". If the right 944 came along (white S2 Coupe, fresh everything, good AC) I would add one to my "collection" in a minute.

Most of the crap that is under the hood is all the same siemens/Bosch stuff as the other German cars I own/wrench on....I'm up for the challenge :lol: j/k

[Potomac-Greg]

Thanks for the tip Greg! I should have been more aware of the signature line. I was warned, but forgot, that a 944 vs. 911 battle would eventually ensue when I started this post. It's all good. :D

T'was a joke. All good advice here. And good fun. It keeps getting more fun when you get the car.

[John]

Ah, so basically you want a street-legal 944 race car that's comfortable and reliable. Got it.

:lol: :lol:... oh yeah, also, :lol:.

Pay no mind to George. He's still a little off from the Spicy Mexican Combo yesterday. Though, in the interest of full disclosure, I should mention that I actually had lunch with George yesterday, and I also had the Spicy Mexican Combo. It seemed like a good idea at the time... :vomit:

Anyway, Josh, I was once like you. Except that rather than ask for any advice, I pulled the trigger on a car up north that turned out to be a total basket case. While I learned a ton about the car (and about how NOT to purchase a 944) it would have been a lot more fun had I actually been able to drive it somewhere other than home from Connecticut. After making it mostly road worthy and determining that it was way more trouble than it was worth, I ended up writing it off in my mind as my "tuition" to learn about the cars and how to work on them, then donating it for a tax deduction. Though much of my knowledge of 944s (and working on cars in general) came from the unfortunate experience I had with that car (affectionately referred to as "The Onion," because each layer you pulled back just made you cry more), I don't suggest doing what I did. Do your best to find a good one in the first place.

I ended up buying a good car locally from a stand-up guy who I've seen and talked to several times since. I've run into a few issues, but none that aren't to be expected with a 20 year old car which sees a decent bit of track time, and none that I haven't been able to handle myself or with some help from friends. My car has 20+ track days in the almost three years I've owned it, and a handful that I'm aware of before then. It is completely stock, other than a roll bar and a short shifter. It has taken me to VIR and back several times, and flawlessly made the trek to Mid Ohio for a track weekend last season. I don't drive it daily, but it does take me to work on some nice days and sees a decent bit of weekend use. When my budget allows, I'll put seats and harnesses in, then probably start freshening the suspension.

Take your time, do your research, and eventually you'll find a good car. The car you've described does exist, but unfortunately for every good one there are probably four bad ones. And most of the bad ones are being sold by people who think that the word "Porsche" automatically demands a premium, not realizing that a 944 is actually a glorified Audi with half of its parts stolen from the VW bin. :D

Definitely come out to the next Tech Inspection (more info at www.pcapotomac.org) and get under one with someone who knows them. You'll learn more than you ever wanted to know about the strengths and weaknesses of the car. And keep in mind that some of the best 944 knowledge on this board comes from 911 drovers.

As for what to do to prep for the track, get some decent street tires and brake pads, change all the fluids, get it checked out thoroughly by a shop or one of our stellar Tech Inspectors, and go have some fun (just be sure your left arm is good and strong, you'll be using it a lot on the straights). And don't be surprised when something breaks, because it will. That isn't so much a 944 problem as it is a "track car" and/or "old car" problem.

[RedOctober]

Its possible. Mine is all that and a bag of chips (I spilled one on the way back from mid ohio and with the cage I can't reach them all!). In all seriousness, you'd have to go really nuts on the suspension or safety to make unstreetable. I have done 7 hour drives in mine. In fact I prefer longer drives since its a PITFA to get in and out with the seats/bars and what not. Once you're in, the ergonomics are excellent. They are nice competent cars. Easy to drive, a little harder to wrench on than a 911, parts are *slighltly* cheaper, but they are a little more fragile than a 911 for the track...but I've seen plenty of both broken.

I absolutely LOVE my 944, and also bought from a PCA member who would not only look me in the eye every event, but answer all my nagging emails with stupid questions that were already answered in the binder of documentation handed over with the car.

As for street/track use, mine is a handful on the beltway now that the suspension is done (30mm T-bars/425# springs). Smoother roads outside of the beltway are fine and no problem, however the overpass joints on 495 sound as if the dash is going to break in half. I still drive mine to work once every couple weeks and do weekend drives so it doesn't sit too long, but those are on 'smoother' roads as well.

[jvns1022]

Thanks especially for the last couple of responses! That's great advice that I appreciate receiving and will keep in mind as I get closer to pulling the trigger.

[9toofaresser]

Thanks especially for the last couple of responses! That's great advice that I appreciate receiving and will keep in mind as I get closer to pulling the trigger.

If somebody hasn't already mentioned it, take a few evenings to read a lot of the stuff on this website, Especially the "Purchasing a 944" section.

www.clarks-garage.com

The "Garage Shop Manual" section is the closest thing to a full blown shop manual / tutorial on the fixing everything on a 944/924S. I have made backups of all the PDFs just in case the website ever dries up.

FYI - after 5 years of inactivity (since 2005), quite a few of the procedures have been updated in the last few months!

[smo]

I am looking for a 944 that I can drive to work/weekends in nice weather but that I can also take on the track as often as I can make it. My initial end goal was something with good suspension, seats, harnesses, rollbar. And then picking up a second set of wheels/tires down the road. I have been to a few driving schools but have never been on the track in my own car. I was looking to change this but I don't have the funds to commit to a truck and trailer and I wouldn't want to be restricted to only driving the car at the track. Hope this helps.


This was exactly what I was looking for when I bought mine. I did the internet browsing for almost a month, but the biggest thing I set was a budget. Basically I was set to spend $5k (total cost for purchase + initial repairs). I didn't do a PPI, as I mentioned previously. This was stupid on my part, but I did bring along a buddy that does a lot of wrenching and we went over the main items on any car (belts, hoses, interior, oil/water leaks, etc). I did a lot of reading on Clarks Garage, and I may have even picked up a repair manual prior to looking at my first 944. Basically, have a GOOD idea of what the main issue items are on these cars before considering buying one.

With all that said, I bought the first one I looked at in person (I wanted a 944 and I wanted one NOW, regardless of how smart a purchase it was). I had looked at several dozen online prior to that however and had a good understanding of what I could get for the money in this area. Like you I wanted a weekly driver that could get light to moderate track use for the first few years. The plans for the later years included a full track prep and me kissing the trophy girl at the DE. It turns out that buying a used spec 944 is cheaper than prepping one myself, and the 944 I found is in pretty damn good shape. So no reason to go overboard on gutting the interior, installing lexan, removing A/C, etc. But I digress. . . .

So $4200 later I got a '88 944 with 114k miles, with a decent repair history up until about 5 years ago, and no PPI. I knew it needed tires, and with no sure date on the last WP/belts I planned on having those done. $3000+ later I had a shop do the pump, rollers, front engine seals, cam tower seal, trans and oil change, and thats about it.....$3000 doesn't go far when labor rates are $100+ / hour.

Some advice from a new owner. Set a HARD limit on what you want to spend up front. You are GUARANTEED to spend several hundred a year just maintaining it yourself, let alone if you need to go to a shop. Don't forget this thing has to pass emissions if you live in VA (as well as MD but VA is more strict). It may need new tires or brakes, and it WILL if you track it. Calculate that into the initial budget.

Feel free to PM me if you want to drive and go over a 944 with an owner / new maintainer of one. Come out to a tech session and I know someone will let you go over a 944 with them. Or just come out to one of the breakfasts and talk to any 944 owner. We love it when people pay attention to us :) I think we would all hate to see you rush out and pay way too much for someone else's project gone wrong.

[HoodPin]

FWIW.....if car is old enough you may be able to qualify for Antique/Historic (aka OldeFarte) tags, which means emissions tests gone bye-bye.

[jvns1022]

Thanks for the info. Just got done setting my budget after considering mild track prep and some of the repairs/maintenance that Steve mentioned. Also printed out the Clark's Garage buying guide and will be taking it with me to the next 944 that I check out. Are there any other shops in the area in addition to Intersport and IMA that specialize in Porsche and would be a good choice for a PPI?

[Dr K]

FWIW.....if car is old enough you may be able to qualify for Antique/Historic (aka OldeFarte) tags, which means emissions tests gone bye-bye.
25 years in VA. Or you could move to Maryland and get a newer car (20 years)...

[Lupin..the..3rd]

FWIW.....if car is old enough you may be able to qualify for Antique/Historic (aka OldeFarte) tags, which means emissions tests gone bye-bye.
In VA, you don't need special tags. All cars are automatically emissions exempt at 25 years.

[jvns1022]

In VA, you don't need special tags. All cars are automatically emissions exempt at 25 years.


Even better!!!!!

[BlackTalon]

Thanks for the info. Just got done setting my budget after considering mild track prep and some of the repairs/maintenance that Steve mentioned. Also printed out the Clark's Garage buying guide and will be taking it with me to the next 944 that I check out. Are there any other shops in the area in addition to Intersport and IMA that specialize in Porsche and would be a good choice for a PPI?RPM, Stuttgart (Matt de Maria), ASG, Autotherapy, Autobahn

[jvns1022]

Thanks, I'll check those out too!

[tdatk]

Its possible. Mine is all that and a bag of chips (I spilled one on the way back from mid ohio and with the cage I can't reach them all!). In all seriousness, you'd have to go really nuts on the suspension or safety to make unstreetable. I have done 7 hour drives in mine. In fact I prefer longer drives since its a PITFA to get in and out with the seats/bars and what not. Once you're in, the ergonomics are excellent. They are nice competent cars. Easy to drive, a little harder to wrench on than a 911, parts are *slighltly* cheaper, but they are a little more fragile than a 911 for the track...but I've seen plenty of both broken.

But I'll be he won't drive 300+ miles home on corded tires.....;)

Echo what all have said and most of us REAC guys have had a fofo or two in their past so keep that in mind before passing judgment on a comment, epically mine.:cool:

[tomfree]

RPM, Stuttgart (Matt de Maria), ASG, Autotherapy, Autobahn

I would remove Autotherapy from that list, based on my experience when the current owner of my S2 had the PPI done there.

Matt de Maria is the no-brainer if he has the time. No sugar coating, no BS, he will tell you what it needs.

[racer]

I would remove Autotherapy from that list, based on my experience when the current owner of my S2 had the PPI done there.

Is that because they did find what you knew was wrong or because they didn't find what you knew was wrong ;)

i wouldn't remove them from the list.. It also depends on where the car you find is located as to how far someone would take it for a ppi. Living in Gaithersburg, I doub't I would take it deep into VA for instance, and vice versa.

[Potomac-Greg]

If I wrote off every shop (including dealership) that has tried to overcharge me, or has screwed up a repair, then the only ones remaining would be those that I've not used yet!

[HoodPin]

If I wrote off every shop (including dealership) that has tried to overcharge me, or has screwed up a repair, then the only ones remaining would be those that I've not used yet!

Funny..:lol:.....but true! :oops:

I've heard good and bad stuff about almost every single shop out there. But, IMHO, all those mentioned so far really do want to do right by their customers. But remember that each shop is not just one person either (except maybe for Matt D. ;)). Most have a staff of mechanics, and they tend to be fluid. While a newbie mechanic might goof on a job, a good shop owner will work with you to make it right. Some owners will let you know up front (if they know....), but sometimes you have to ask.