Another sad teen-driver story......

[HoodPin]

Very nasty 1 car accident happened last nite just down the street from us. I heard all the sirens, and then saw the helicopters circling. IMHO, another example of newish teen driver either driving over their head, or possibly distracted (there were 5 teens in the car). Alcohol supposedly not involved. But no mention or speed or other possible abuses. A 15 year old passenger perished. :( Another still in critical condition. Unfortunately, that's not the first severe accident I've seen in that same turn.....

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/1008/563094.html


.....teach your children well......

[dweymer]

Sad...

I still do not understand why it is so easy to get a drivers license. It would be nice if they actually did a road test, in real conditions.

[}{arlequin]

an hpde-like course should be a requirement. regardless of applicant's age. when i'm president

[John Clay]

Pam sent me the link earlier this morning. Somewhat ironic that she was just teaching at Street Survival this weekend and then this sad event happens right in our backyard.

I'm not up to date on young driver's license laws in MD, but I know some places limit the number of passengers teenagers can have in a car.

[}{arlequin]

i don't think a law will prevent them from having more friends in the car. they'll always screw around and take that chance. maybe the solution is to let them drive two-seaters?

[roundel]

It really does bring a tear to my eye. They were in a Volvo wagon too. The parents tried to put them in a safe car.

[hoophead]

It's only safe if they wear their seat belts...were the two injured teens the ones that were ejected? I couldn't quite tell from the clip/article.

[LPM911]

an hpde-like course should be a requirement. regardless of applicant's age. when i'm president

x2. driving classes here are a joke. sure you need to learn what all the signs mean but what new drivers really need to learn is how to handle the car when an oh sh!t moment happens and what happened to get the car in that type of situation. i wish it was much harder to get and maintain a drivers license.

[ovfd911]

As one who was in a bad accident, not of my cause, and limps everyday for it,
I'd like to suggest the schools go back to the politically incorrect "blood and guts movies" during their DE.
And maybe an intimate personal discussion with some survivors.
Even better, the parents of those who didn't.:XX

[Dr K]

an hpde-like course should be a requirement. regardless of applicant's age. when i'm presidentDon't you have to be U.S. born to be President? But you can be Governator...

Peter

[Richard Curtis]

Bill Scott offers a one-day teen driving course. We sent our daughter through it to great effect 12 years ago. I recommend it strongly to anyone with a teen-aged driver. Heck, even adults could benefit.

[Dr K]

an hpde-like course should be a requirement. regardless of applicant's age.

x2. driving classes here are a joke. sure you need to learn what all the signs mean but what new drivers really need to learn is how to handle the car when an oh sh!t moment happens and what happened to get the car in that type of situation. i wish it was much harder to get and maintain a drivers license.

I'd like to suggest the schools go back to the politically incorrect "blood and guts movies" during their DE.
And maybe an intimate personal discussion with some survivors.
Even better, the parents of those who didn't.:XX
X2 on all of those.

As you all know, my son learned on a Prius, did twice as many parent-accompanied hours as required (and still got his license the first day he could), did HPDE as soon as he was old enough, and now drives regularly on the track. He may not have the responsibility of a 40-year-old, but with his reflexes, safe car (well, the P-car isn't so safe on the street without the 5-point...), and practice at the "Oh S#!t" moments in the relatively safe environment of the track, I feel he's much better prepared than most. Not to mention his maturity behind the wheel and those natural driving skills he certainly didn't inherit from me.

Peter

[BlackTalon]

and those natural driving skills he certainly didn't inherit from me.They didn't have many driving video games when you were a youth :lol:

[racer]

On the other hand, it doesn't always matter how old, young, experienced etc. Accidents can and do happen, even to "seasoned" drivers. Just because many of us drive on the track and have learned some car control skills and behaviors that are helpful on the street, it doesn't mean something bad can't happen.

[Dr K]

Just look at that spec Miata video... :(

[Jazzbass]

On the other hand, it doesn't always matter how old, young, experienced etc. Accidents can and do happen, even to "seasoned" drivers. Just because many of us drive on the track and have learned some car control skills and behaviors that are helpful on the street, it doesn't mean something bad can't happen.
This is true. Your point is that anyone can be killed? I agree, without question.

Statistically speaking though, I am at MUCH lower risk of dying in a car accident than my son when he turns 17. Every time I drive there are several incidents where I think about how 18 years of driving experience just helped me avoid an accident. Stuff like watching other driver's faces in their mirrors to see if they're about to cut me off. Sure the DE stuff helps, but the almost two decades of driving is more important.

I think about how when my kids are old enough to drive, they won't have that. And you can't teach experience. When you or I drive, 10% of our mental effort is involved in operating the car. It's second nature. The other 90% is watching out for morons and bad situations (deer, etc). For a 17 yr old, they spend over half their mental effort just operating the car. That leaves less time for situational awareness. Throw in texting, cell phones, iPods, friends, etc, and it's no wonder sad stuff like this happens.

What can you do if you can't teach experience? Teach them how to use the car correctly, so they can focus on the external. Teach car control, situational awareness, etc, until it's as close to second nature as you can get. That way, when your kids do get into bad situations, at least they have some skills to get out of them. Everything teach your kids increases the odds.

I learned to drive like most people my age. Once I was proficient enough to operate the controls in the car and make it move forward, I got a license. I couldn't drive for shit and didn't even understand, really, how the car worked and how dangerous it really was. It is really just sheer luck I was never in a bad accident. I don't intend on letting my kids out there with the same lack of training.

[HoodPin]

On the other hand, it doesn't always matter how old, young, experienced etc. Accidents can and do happen, even to "seasoned" drivers. Just because many of us drive on the track and have learned some car control skills and behaviors that are helpful on the street, it doesn't mean something bad can't happen.

Too true.....my wife and I even watched in surreal horror as my oldest boy ended up in an accident which totaled our first 944S2. He didn't do anything wrong....but it happened. We were very thankful no one was injured.

But, our sons learned a lot more about driving than the typical teen. Too many times a new driver gets into a car and knows zippo about physics or the car's capabilities. They think its simply a matter of point it and go. Accidents will happen (on & off the track). But IMHO, the objective is to prevent the incidents where the DumbAssGene has been given too long a leash.

[dweymer]

Nikki and I already agreed the kids would both go to advanced driving schools first; ie. bwm teen drivers, I think bondurant has one 2.

[dweymer]

also...since I forgot earlier....condolences to the families......no matter what the cause, it sucks.

[roundel]

Having taught at Street Survival and years with various clubs, I am also struck by how anti-intuitive driving is when shit goes wrong. The natural tenancy is to look at what you are afraid of. In driving you need to look at your escape route. If the car not going to make a corner, the natural tendency is to turn the wheel more. Wrong!

Even track experience does little good without lots of experience getting out of a slide and understanding how a car behaves.

Unfortunately, some share the view of my uncle. When I offered to get his kids into a highway safety school his first question was if it was at a track. If so, no chance.
:roll:

[joep]

This is very sad indeed. When I was getting my license in the Mid-west we had to take a road test. I moved out here years ago and I guess they "trusted me" because my license just transfered. I've never taken a test since I was 16 yr. Isn't that the case here in NOVA?

[VaSteve]

Having taught at Street Survival and years with various clubs, I am also struck by how anti-intuitive driving is when shit goes wrong. The natural tenancy is to look at what you are afraid of. In driving you need to look at your escape route. If the car not going to make a corner, the natural tendency is to turn the wheel more. Wrong!



I learned to drive like most people my age. Once I was proficient enough to operate the controls in the car and make it move forward, I got a license. I couldn't drive for shit and didn't even understand, really, how the car worked and how dangerous it really was. It is really just sheer luck I was never in a bad accident. I don't intend on letting my kids out there with the same lack of training.

I had two female students this weekend at Street Survival. One was in her mid-20s and one was 16. It was interesting the differences between the two in learning. The older one had totaled a car in the rain and was timid about wet conditions. The other had been driving "since June". I had the older one first and really had to dial back the concepts for the second one. I'm not sure she understood how little she knew. BUT, I saw great improvements from both and really saw the benefits. I hope the knowledge sticks with them.

We all had fun on the skid pad. I had to dial back the younger one since I was starting to get quesey. I think a couple new sets of tires are in order. :)

[BrianP]

It would save a lot of lives if people actually learned how to drive rather than learning how to pass a test.

volvo's dont seem to fair well with teen drivers in dmass.

[ovfd911]

This is a pretty cool program put online by Ford.
https://www.drivingskillsforlife.com/index.php

But, IMO, deaths seem to occur when someone gets too "comfortable" with their abilities...
and mixed with a friend or two who ask to them to "push the limit" just a bit... ahhh, the inevitable...
We've all been there and done it, lucky to live through it.

For me the question is: How do we "put the fear of death" in any driver who might want to exceed not just their abilities but the unknown situation ahead?

Trees don't jump out unless your in the Land of Oz..
and "that" road has been curved for years.
"Uhhh, why are you the only one who hit it?"

Oh, shucks... What I mean is, I'm going to teach my daughter that:
"If you do that you are going to DIE!!! Or someone else WILL!!!
And you'll go to JAIL!!!"

Sorry for the rant, but it's pretty personal with me.

[berettafan]

car full of teens is bad news for sure.

i don't know how i'm going to handle fears when my 4yr old turns driving age. Scary. sure he'll be doing AX's and HPDC's and anything else i can find for him but situational awareness is the key i think.

god bless the families involved.

[Clarke]

I personally think that programs like Street Survival should be mandatory before getting your license, then required again after a year behind the wheel. Teens will always push the limits. If they have been taught car control, maybe more could recover from exceeding their limits. I think that if most of us here were honest with ourselves, most of us did a lot of stupid sh*% in cars, there is no reason any of us should still be alive, but by the grace of God.

[HoodPin]

The latest article about this accident sheds more light on the story. Apparently, these teens were traveling together in several cars, heading to a local Burgar King for a snack after their weekly church youth group meeting at a leader's home. Turns out the group's leader was in the trailing car, and he was the one that initially responded after seeing the car go into the trees.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/21/AR2008102100482.html

Doesn't sound like dangerous driving was involved. However, does sound like probably driver distraction, with others in the car. I drove thru the stretch of road last nite, and no evidence of skid marks, etc. The road veers left, and it appears the car simply drove straight off into the trees.

I agree with everyone that teens need more & better driver training (and maybe some non-teens, too......). But this doesn't look like a case of overdriving. The driver probably turned around to speak to a friend at the wrong second. Driving a car is a serious responsibility. And concentration is a part of it. Reminds me of an incident in our prior neighborhood where a teen driving a mini-pickup with big tires, looked to change a CD, and veered onto an oncoming neighbor in a Honda Accord. The truck drove right up his hood and roof, and flipped over onto its side. :(

[rs911t]

A too often repeated sad story.

I was fortunate that my high school held driver's ed courses at a local facility used to train emergency workers. We had the benefit of "real" instructors, skid pad, etc BEFORE the traditional DE on public roads.

I went on to hone my skills with late night, high speed pursuits with my friends. Back then we called it "rat racing" ... in hindsight it was simple stupidity. Incredibly the only casualty was a cat I ran over one evening.

Training and experience are only 2 of the requirements. Unfortunately some teenagers will only get by on luck until they develop good judgement.

[HateDCRoads]

This is a very sad story. I know some of the youth group leaders through my own church involvement. These were basically good kids, who didn't drink and didn't get in trouble and sometimes accidents just happen.

This being said, the two children most severely injured were not wearing seatbelts - it is impossible to say if things would have turned out differently if they had been, but they probably would have. I for one always make sure that all of my passengers always have their belts on.

I also think that Volvos are actually not very safe cars the way most people drive them. While solidly built, the newer ones tend to be pretty well powered and my observation is that most drivers overestimate the safety benefit in their driving habits. If and when I have children, I think one of the best things you can do is get them a solid car with a small motor, like the old Volvo 240DL - it's just harder to get into trouble in an underpowered car.

A very sad day.

[Dan M2]

My dad put me in a volvo (1973) in high school. I tried to make that damn thing slide around corners and go fast with no luck. Sadly I did total it on the freeway going 45 right into a car that stopped for no real reason. I walked away without a scratch while not wearing my seatbelt (no laws back then). I didn't fare so well in the passenger side of a celica a year later, but still survived, again with no seatbelt and on the day the seatbelt law went into effect!

I agree that teenagers survive mostly on luck. I was a better than average driver and still did a lot of stupid things that would've made great headlines.

-Dan

[scott]

strange some of you all talk like all teen driver aspire to be racers...they don't. The cuase of these types of accidents is that they simply lack the responsibility, maturity and focus to be safe drivers. Teens wreck cars and lives becuse of bad dicisions. Nobody makes a bad decision during thier driving test...it usually happens at night, with firends in the car. The decision was to go fast, let firends not wear seat belts, talk and laugh it up being part of the party going on in the back seat...the bad decision was to not make driving the number one and only priority when behind the wheel. You don't need to teach oversteer techniques...you need to teach driver responisibility and disipline.

I have a teen ready to dirve...or at least she thinks so. trust me. shes not. and she won't till she demonstrates, not driving skills, but maturity and disipline. Till then I will continue to drive her her and there... safe drivers make safe roads, safe cars are just band aids for our monetarty lapses in disipline.

[rs911t]

strange some of you all talk like all teen driver aspire to be racers
No, that's not what's being said. Instruction on a skid pad or braking/slalom exercises simply gives the driver (young or old) the opportunity to experience how their car behaves when it's asked to perform an evasive manuveur. Better yet, the driver experiences how the driver behaves when the car gets of out sorts. All this happens in a safe environment, e.g. no cars to go into head-on. Everyone gets to learn from the experience rather than being killed by it.

[Clarke]

No, that's not what's being said. Instruction on a skid pad or braking/slalom exercises simply gives the driver (young or old) the opportunity to experience how their car behaves when it's asked to perform an evasive manuveur. Better yet, the driver experiences how the driver behaves when the car gets of out sorts. All this happens in a safe environment, e.g. no cars to go into head-on. Everyone gets to learn from the experience rather than being killed by it.

This was my point. We all know that a teen is going to do something stupid behind the wheel at some point. The question is, will they have the training and skills to recover from their poor judgment.

[Potomac-Greg]

strange some of you all talk like all teen driver aspire to be racers...they don't. The cuase of these types of accidents is that they simply lack the responsibility, maturity and focus to be safe drivers. Teens wreck cars and lives becuse of bad dicisions. Nobody makes a bad decision during thier driving test...it usually happens at night, with firends in the car. The decision was to go fast, let firends not wear seat belts, talk and laugh it up being part of the party going on in the back seat...the bad decision was to not make driving the number one and only priority when behind the wheel. You don't need to teach oversteer techniques...you need to teach driver responisibility and disipline.

I have a teen ready to dirve...or at least she thinks so. trust me. shes not. and she won't till she demonstrates, not driving skills, but maturity and disipline. Till then I will continue to drive her her and there... safe drivers make safe roads, safe cars are just band aids for our monetarty lapses in disipline.

I see the point. Teens don't crash just because they lack the skills to control the car in extreme situations. Rather, then lack teh judgment/maturity to refrain from stupid or risky behavior. But that's a second and separate reason to get a kid into a performance driving course. Let them blow off steam and experiment on track. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that on-road experimentation would go down if drivers got their rocks off on track. Tracking certainly makes me a less adventurous street driver.

[scott]

I get the driver performance arguement Learning how to react and control the car in normal adn extreme situations. I was fortunate to learn driving dynamics first with bikes, then motorcycles then gocarts.

However, I 'm not too old though to rmember the night I drove into the back of a large, parked station wagon when I was 16. Going a blistering 25 mph...why, she was very cute, funny, liked me and .....in the backseat! while I was supposed to be driving. Never saw it. just bang. No recovery from the bad decision, no turing into the skid, no brake pumping or antilock planted foot. no brake modulation, no understeer avoidance no understanding of wieght transfer. blah blah blah. No experimentation here, just my poor decision to look at the hottie in the backseat while putting around a side street curve. Forgot I was driving the car. I was lucky. just going 25. I had been know to go a lot faster most of the time... same scenario on a unmarked back road going say 50ish hitting a big tree? and it would be a different story. Nobody forgets they are driving or is distracted during a driving clinic. They are really focused. somehow we have to teach our teens how important it is to not to be distracted, when, as a teen, you are easily distracted by just about everything. Focus First.

Best lesson I ever learned was in drivers ed. After stopping at the stop sign the instructor place his clip board over the guage panel and asked how much fuel we had? I said enough? He said when you are driving the car your head needs to be driving the car.

[joep]

somehow we have to teach our teens how important it is to not to be distracted, when, as a teen, you are easily distracted by just about everything. Focus First.

Teens today I think are not given enough opportunity to learn responsibility and consequences of their actions from a young age. Long before I first drove a car I had the fear of god in me for my life if I did something stupid.

Learning to focus is a life skill that they, and we, need. When was the last time you saw a kid just sitting somewhere day dreaming peacefully?

Technical driving skills are a important sure, but I agree with the maturity comments above most of all.

I wonder though. Growing up I had to wait til nobody else was using the family car, and then I was never free enough to be out at night driving it with friends. We just didn't have enough cars in the family for this.

In a few ways this recession is gonna do us all some good.

[Redroc]

It wouldn't be popular, but I think the driving age needs to be raised to 18.

[Fairfax 944]

It wouldn't be popular, but I think the driving age needs to be raised to 18.

Punish all parents, and 16 and 17 year olds because 1 out of 1,000 (or higher) make a mistake? There are some good teenage drivers out there that are far better than some adults.

Not too long ago, my wife was in gridlocked traffic trying to make a left turn in front of oncoming traffic. The nice lady in the oncoming lane was stopped and waived my wife in front of her. My wife (driving my nice Audi) started to turn left, but traffic moving in the opposite direction started to move. The nice lady proceeded to move with traffic and smash into my wife's car, after she had just waived her to pass in front of her. Should we ban all 60 year old asian women from driving because this particular 60 year old asian woman can't drive? (The amazing thing about this story was that I don't believe the woman denied the facts.)

[KevinOyler]

The news report said the rear seat passengers were not wearing seat belts and the passenger who died was in the middle in the rear seat.

[roundel]

Not all that is taught at Street Survival is car control. Much of the benefit is that there is a gathering of people, parents, and teens where the whole focus of the day is survival. Teens get a day where people are focused on them, talking to them about driving and all its pitfalls.

I believe that current cars may contribute to the problem. IIRC cars used to feel much more like they were hurdling steel cages. Going 60 or 70 mph felt FAST. Today's cars are so insulating, smooth, and quiet that it is easy to feel like you are in your lounge chair in front of the TV. Maybe oº toe or even some toe-out would help keep novices focused on driving. Get all the modern safety advances including ABS, crumple zones, traction control, but more twitchiness.

Just a theory.

[Potomac-Greg]

It wouldn't be popular, but I think the driving age needs to be raised to 18.

I think we could achieve the same thing with MUCH more rigorous driving test, and make them recurrent (every 4 or 5 years). There are 17 year olds that shouldn't be on the road, but there are also 45 year olds that shouldn't drive.

If 40% of the kids don't fail a driving test, then it's not hard enough.

[86911TLCAB]

Lets just say it...there are a lot of bad drivers. regardless of age. This is a sad story about a couple of young lives that were cut short. thats why it gets the attention it does. Had it been two guys in the 30's who got in an accident it wouldnt get the same attention.

I think we should be a lot more strict on giving people licenses. But the same should apply to people getting house loans and women having kids. You should prove you are responsible enough to handle the responsibility before you get the license. Not sure it is going to happen, but we can hope.

I have two kids who passed through that period pretty well. They got a lot of training and were restricted from use of the highway for almost a years unless i was in the car. but today they are both good drivers and knock on wood have not been in any accidents. So there are good drivers...but there are loads of not so good ones.

[Trak Ratt]

Two more out in Laudon added to the list yesterday. 18 and 19 into a tree w/belts. Seems the only group guaranteed work these days are the grieve counselors :|

[joep]

Just a theory.

I'll buy it. I grew up learning to drive in ice & snow. Every time it happens I just wanna sit out front in a lawn chair and watch the Idiot Ice Capades.

If a driver doesn't have respect for the machine they are in, or respect for the driving elements and conditions, or aren't thinking of what the guy next too, in front of, behind, and oncoming to you are going to do, trouble will eventually happen.

If 40% of the kids don't fail a driving test, then it's not hard enough.

-amen to that. A bell curve would be a good thing here.

[Fairfax 944]

http://www.acc-tv.com/images/wjla/news/vidcap_centrevillecrash1103.jpg

Here's another. Very sad! :( Better driver education should have prevented this one.

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/1108/566636.html


CENTREVILLE, Va. - Family and friends are mourning an 18-year-old Clifton man who died in a single-vehicle car crash Monday that critically injured his passenger.
Investigators believe Blair Hardy lost control of his 1997 Volkswagen Jetta in the 12300 block of Braddock Road about 4:30 a.m. Monday and slammed into a telephone pole.

Hardy was pronounced dead at the scene.

The passenger, a teenage girl from Centreville, was MedEvaced to Inova Fairfax Hospital with life-threatening injuries. The investigation determined that speed was a factor and the investigation continues.

This is the 20th fatal crash in Fairfax County (web|news) this year. Around the same time last year, there were 37 crashes that resulted in 42 deaths.

[BlackTalon]

He must have been going pretty damned fast. Not sure what Driver's Ed can do to prevent that.

On the bright side, teen deaths in F'Fx Co. are down 50% this year

[berettafan]

you know when i was 16 i drove an '82 Rabbit. could MAYBE spin the wheels in the rain.

even a '97 Jetta is a hot rod compared to what i drove at such a young age.

[Fairfax 944]

you know when i was 16 i drove an '82 Rabbit. could MAYBE spin the wheels in the rain.

even a '97 Jetta is a hot rod compared to what i drove at such a young age.

Yes, that was the safety theme at this weekends DE. Back in the 80s, cars were at no more than 200hp. Now, with Hondas and every other car pushing 300hp, it's a lot easier to screw up.

[racer]

Lets be honest here.. the real killer is the trees! Get ride of trees, save lives :p

[hoophead]

Lets be honest here.. the real killer is the trees! Get rid of trees, save lives :p

This will do the trick: http://carboncreditkillers.com/default.asp