Powdercoating

[Ryan]

Anyone know a good place around here. I'm swapping out my Tequipment Rollbar for a DAS sport soon.

[TD in DC]

Why?

[BillJ]

goosecreekrefinishing.com? Local and excellent.

[Ryan]

Why?
Why not!

[Ryan]

goosecreekrefinishing.com? Local and excellent.

Thanks, found them ... http://www.goosecreekfinishing.com

[BillJ]

Sure thing! Keith is a dorki and started the business out of pure enjoyment. Has a couple of nice coupes too ;)

[TD in DC]

no really, why the change?

[smdubovsky]

Ryan,
Its been ages since I've seen a tequipment roll bar, but those are the ones w/ the legs that go almost straight down? While I've never measured the included angle, it sure looks like they'd never pass scca/pca/etc tech for a legal time-trial roll-bar (IIRC must be >=30deg??) I googled the 997 das bar and it goes back to the shock towers? Much more conventional (and likely stronger) design.

[Rob in VA]

Because the tequipment bar is total poser, that's why.

[Rob in VA]

Ryan,
Its been ages since I've seen a tequipment roll bar, but those are the ones w/ the legs that go almost straight down? While I've never measured the included angle, it sure looks like they'd never pass scca/pca/etc tech for a legal time-trial roll-bar (IIRC must be >=30deg??) I googled the 997 das bar and it goes back to the shock towers? Much more conventional (and likely stronger) design.
For 1000 dollars you Sir are correct!

[BillJ]

the champ has spoken :lol:

Get ready for some freakin charts.

[Rob in VA]

the champ has spoken :lol:

Get ready for some freakin charts.
The champ. I like that. :lol:

[Ryan]

So only one powdercoater in the area that people have used??

[justin m]

there is a place in Manassas Park called American Stripping
http://www.ascoweb.com
they did great work on my previous car. Stripped and powdercoated the whole thing.
I have also had them do miscellaneous small parts too.

[type954]

i've used the place in manassas for small parts (engine tin mostly) and was very satisfied with the work.

[Ryan]

there is a place in Manassas Park called American Stripping
http://www.ascoweb.com
they did great work on my previous car. Stripped and powdercoated the whole thing.
I have also had them do miscellaneous small parts too.

Thanks Justin

[justin m]

no problem. The president , James Sejd (sp?) is a good guy to deal with, and will walk you through whatever you want to do, and explain what he can and cannot do with the process. They carry every color you can dream of, and have huge walk in ovens that can accomodate anything from a screw to a helicopter. One time they had a full sized Blackhawk helicopter chassis there (a simulator) that they were working on.
Prices were good on my stuff. They do media blasting too.

of course the usual disclaimer: no personal interest,blah blah blah........ just a happy customer

[VaSteve]

I had mixed results, but they ultimately corrected the issue. A roll bar should be fine.

[Ryan]

American Stripping (ascoweb.com) did an awesome job. here's a pic of their work...

http://www.grabmor.com/p/rollbar.JPG

[Rob in VA]

That's nice.

[Trak Ratt]

there is a place in Manassas Park called American Stripping
http://www.ascoweb.com
they did great work on my previous car. Stripped and powdercoated the whole thing.
I have also had them do miscellaneous small parts too.They did our roll bar and other stuff many years ago. Have lots of options on color and texture, as I expect most do now. They have a booth large enough for stripping cars and frames. Wonder it would cost to get my trailer POed. When we were there last they had about 3 dozen USPO mail boxes waiting to be done.

[Noah]

it looks like the triangulated design will stiffen up the chassis.

[Ryan]

it looks like the triangulated design will stiffen up the chassis.

Yea... that and it mounts to the rear shock towers

[gweedo]

Very nice...Ryan
Where did you get the bar from? Who did the install?

[Ryan]

Very nice...Ryan
Where did you get the bar from? Who did the install?

DAS Sport ... can't remember where. I did the install myself. If you want a Porsche Tequipment 997 bar, I'm about to put mine up for sale.

[Vicegrip]

Ryan, I want to apologize in advance as you were not looking to get your bar picked on and I don't intend it in that way. You are smart to install a bar and restraint system in your car and are way up on anyone that has not or cannot.

it looks like the triangulated design will stiffen up the chassis.Sorry to be a wet blanket but... How? The X is not connected to another stressed structure at the upper end. The top of the X structure is the roll bar main hoop and it is only connected to the tub after taking bends and dropping 2 feet to the tub. This X does little if anything where it is.
This bar build method is not even legal in most venues without the cross bar in the plane of the main hoop.
In addition, in a side impact the two bends in the harness bar reduce the bars ability to transfer load across to the non impact side as the harness bar is prebent in a way and will fold rather than transfer much load. Locked leg verses bent leg. This reduces the roll bars ability to resist intrusion in a B pillar hit. This is a marginal loss overall but a builder should build well when he can. Put the X in the main hoop in a rollbar. This helps keep the main hoop from collapsing or deforming side to side and helps resist B pillar intrusion. This is one reason a diagonal is required in race ready main hoops, bar or cage. Both hoop feet go to work resisting in a side hit when the bar is Xed or cross tubed. The lower cross bar in the rear X should have been in the bottom of the main hoop and then it would do something, help resist penetration like a knee bar does in a cage for the a pillar area. This bar has the metal in the wrong places. It was built as a weekender bolt in bar but there are things that would have made it better and still maintain this role.
Don't get me wrong, adding that bar, a seat and harnesses is a massive jump in safety for most impacts and it was wise to instal it. OTOH The company that built it needs to Google Geometry and Physics 101. DAS Sport looks like they added metal to make it look more sturdy. The missing cross or diagonal would have likely reduced seat room due to the restrictions in bolt in points. Compromise strikes again.


Handling affecting flex is most evident in the door area between the A and B pillar. Unless you can tie front to back across them you have islands of rigidity connected with suspension bridges. Roll bars add safety and weight.

[Ryan]

Ryan, I want to apologize in advance as you were not looking to get your bar picked on and I don't intend it in that way..

No worries, this site IS about info (and getting picked on). Although did want to point out that for a bolt in bar this this probably one of the better ones out there for a gt3. It "is" ("was" after the new full cage requirement this year) PCA Club Race legal (if you bought the optional weld in foot plates).

[OldTee]

Sorry to be a wet blanket but... How? The X is not connected to another stressed structure at the upper end. The top of the X structure is the roll bar main hoop and it is only connected to the tub after taking bends and dropping 2 feet to the tub. This X does little if anything where it is.
Roll bars add safety and weight.

I don't know shinola about this stuff. How about marking up his pic with additional parts that would make it acceptable to the PCA inspecton gods. This seems better than the ones in this search, don't they?
http://www.livermoreperformance.com/porsche_roll_bars.html

I don't plan to put a roll bar in ARF, mostly because I couldn't get in or out of the car even if I was able to pare down my beer belly.
Good post.
Thanks
ARF

[realroadrage]

I don't plan to put a roll bar in ARF, mostly because I couldn't get in or out of the car even if I was able to pare down my beer belly.

Good post. ;)

[Noah]

lolz, kurt, i was just joking around...a GT3 is already insanely stiff. i guess i sort of inside-baseballed myself. there are all these threads on pelican with people going on and on about chassis strength and stiffening and x-braces and roll bars, and i know it's completely meaningless on a modern 911. it was, um, funny (at the time, to me).

[Vicegrip]

lolz, kurt, i was just joking around...a GT3 is already insanely stiff. i guess i sort of inside-baseballed myself. there are all these threads on pelican with people going on and on about chassis strength and stiffening and x-braces and roll bars, and i know it's completely meaningless on a modern 911. it was, um, funny (at the time, to me).Yes you hit a little inside and I missed it. ;) I too get kinda ticked when I see someone getting all fuzzy about something that does nothing but look CNC cut. Late model tower braces come to mind for some reason. There was a thread some years ago on PP that got so stupid. It was sort of the last straw and I checked off the Mother Board for a year or so. It is a great site and full of smart experienced folks (-1 with the passing of early S man :( ) but there are so many that are waiting to pounce on every little thing and then circle fight amongst themselves. Even the modern street 911 can be stiffened up. Look at the chassis flex numbers. You have to address the door holes.

My late night rant was more on 2 things. Adding bolt in stiffness and the misconceptions and people selling on perceptions over good design. This bar is not in anyway "bad". I just think it could have been better and lighter but I am truly just another guy on the internet. It is like all bolt in bars, and to a lesser extent ALL bars and cages, a compromise. My guess is that the main hoop plane was not open to being in plane braced so they added metal in the back bracing. his makes for a less strong device that has more metal in it. Less strong, more weight. The nightmare of the automotive anorexic. I bet you could have added in a drivers top to pass bottom bar and had the harness bar bulge back on the drivers side to accommodate the seat some. Brace the main hoop and remove the rear x and the unneeded lower cross bar.

Ryan flies around the track and generates far greater energy potential than most of us mere mortals. He and the other real fast ones need good safety equipment.We all do but we are not dealing with linear increases we are dealing with logarithmic increases in energy. Even good drivers end up in bad situations. An impact at 150 or more is a LOT more than one at 100.

Check the mad photochop skilz. Add a diagonal in the main hoop. Add a harness bar that intersects the diagonal and stays in the plane of the main hoop or dips back for the drivers seat only if need be for clearance. Drop the stuff in the back.

[Rob in VA]

the stuff in the back looks cool. 'nough said.

[michael lang]

I completely understood what you talking about Kurt. You know Kurt, you'd probably do okay doing stuff like that for a living!