SC vs. Carrera 3.2 Let the arguing begin

[SilverStreak]

As I am patiently looking for a daily driver as cheaply as I can I began thinking about a 1980-1983 911 SC. I am a huge fan of 86-88 Carreras but too rich for me at the moment.

The SC performance numbers are better than I had thought so what major differences will I be dissatisfied with in an SC?

Transmission?

Handling?

Brakes?

Reliability?

A/C, daily comfort?

Is the SC an excellent alternative to the 3.2 or does it lack luster?

[good hands]

SC's are for people that can't afford Carrera's.

[Mike W]

I think most think there is not huge differences, sure the 3.2 will be a bit faster, but will you really notice as a DD? Probably not.

If a SC is at your budget, I am sure you will be perfectly happy with one. It's not like they are bad cars.

[SilverStreak]

It's not like they are bad cars.

I didn't mean to imply they are bad cars but they are an older model missing the improvements in the later cars. No Porsche is a bad Porsche.

[Mike W]

I didn't mean to imply they are bad cars but they are an older model missing the improvements in the later cars. No Porsche is a bad Porsche.

I realize, all I am saying is that in the end, even the newest Carrera is 18 years old. Yes there are improvements between the cars, but I don't think they are significant enough to stretch a budget just because. I bet the biggest difference in a daily routine is the front oil cooler (so add one) for hot days in traffic and the air con (which at least works well in my Carrera) which can be updated with the Griffiths and other aftermarket stuff anyway if it becomes a problem over time. The only possible sticking point may be the side impact beams they added in 87 I think. I do realize that this can be $ you might as well spend on a newer car, but I'm just saying I wouldn't worry too much. I think the differences are subtle at best.

[good hands]

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=353117

lots of emotion on the subject

[The Donkey]

I have had both. currently have the SC. The biggest difference and really only difference that I notice regularly is the CIS vs. Motronic. The Motronic is much preferred in my opinion but it does take away from some of the low end. Other than that I don't think there is much difference. I think that my SC might actually be faster than my 85 Carrera but that is seat of the pants feel.

[}{arlequin]

if i knew then what i know now, i'd leave my car alone and pick up a cheap sc and beat the snot out of it. well, maybe not but either way, after driving eli's and RL's for one session each, i can definitely say sc's are fun. it really was the next best thing to a longhood in feel and behavior.

3.0 vs 3.2 is a tough one mostly due to the fact that 3.2 *has* more but it weighs more too. pretty much offset each other. a g50 is a different story b/c of the trans. 3.2's bog down and then surge again in midrange. sc's like to rev all the way up. a chip can fix the bog...

i'd just go w/ the healthy car and let that be the deciding factor.

[hoophead]

The oldest carrera still has to deal with VA emissions for another couple of years ;-)

Carrera brakes are slightly better (more thermal reserve), but the SC can easily be upgraded to be the same.

The carrera heater blower system is superior, IMO.

Make sure any candidate SC has had the carrera tensioner upgrade.

But as has been mentioned previously, the biggest difference is CIS vs. Motronic. There's not much you can do to upgrade the SC's CIS engine without going to carbs...

[Rick V]

I went through the same questioning before I bought. I love my SC! Yes the Carrera works better on paper, but I don't drive on paper. The SC's are (IMO) for for driving the Carrera is more for riding in. Don't get me wrong the Carrera will satisfy. It is all a matter of what you want.....................you can forget about AC in either.
Beth and I just arrived in South Carolina, we took Lanna, no AC, it's only 103deg........................................The tripple black, non ac car..............ouch!

[Rick V]

There's not much you can do to upgrade the SC's CIS engine without going to carbs...
Properly functioning CIS is a nice thing, and not hard to keep in top shape.

[86911TLCAB]

I think the best answer is to buy the best car that you can afford with a little money set aside to sink into it right away...i like the 3.0 and the 3.2...both are fun to drive...tito

[Lucky]

Many SC owners chiming in... I'll try and restore the proper balance to this thread. ;)

I've driven both several times, but obviously have spent many more hours in my Carrera than in anyone else's SC. Behind the wheel the SCs do have a lighter feel to them, however I'm not a fan of CIS. Decent mid-range, but when compared to a Carrera even the best tuned SC begins to run out of breath above 5500 while the Carrera rages on even more fervently. If you like performance driving, you'll love the HP/torque curve of a 3.2 Carrera.

Tuning potential of a Carrera is superior -- free flowing exhaust, cold air intake kit, and a chip are good for 20+ easy HP. You can't do too much to hop up CIS with the same ease as bolt-on or plug-in upgrades. Not saying you can't do it, but it is far from simple.

On top of it all, the Motronic is bulletproof, doesn't explode airboxes, always starts in all weather, etc.

Then you have the better brakes, improved HVAC of '86+ cars, G50 tranny of '87+, and other detail improvements.

But as others have said, there best Porsche is the one you can afford because they are all great cars!

[BlackTalon]

Buy an SC, turn it into a track car, and use your damned Chickster as a DD, the way Dr. Porsche intended! :-)

[Dr K]

I'm with David D - you don't want a 25 year old car as your daily driver, and you don't want to ball up your Boxtser. I've owned both (of course, the SC I had was 4 years old at the time, and my Carrera is 21 years old), but I agree the SC felt lighter and more responsive. Lighten it another 500 lbs and you'll have a REALLY fun car. Remove the AC (the Boxtser's AC works much better anyway). If you really want an inexpensive DD, don't go with a Porsche.

Peter

[racer]

As I am patiently looking for a daily driver as cheaply as I can I began thinking about a 1980-1983 911 SC. I am a huge fan of 86-88 Carreras but too rich for me at the moment.

The SC performance numbers are better than I had thought so what major differences will I be dissatisfied with in an SC?

Transmission?

Handling?

Brakes?

Reliability?

A/C, daily comfort?

Is the SC an excellent alternative to the 3.2 or does it lack luster?


SS.. The thing is.. you have this all backwards. Your BOXSTER would make the great Daily driver. Then, go pick up an SC or Carerra and make that your track car.

That said, What would irk you the most as a DD is the A/C. They are marginal to adequate. Nothing much better without a lot of money invested.

The CIS of the SC can be tricky because some parts simply aren't available and need to be tracked down used, rebuilt etc. That said, when running right, CIS cars feel great!

The transmission will be the same (since a G50 Carerra appears out of your price range)

I think if you had both in your stable you would realize the 911 makes the better, more involving track car and the boxster the better to work as the commuter car.

[SilverStreak]

I can't use the BOXSTER as a daily, I have to carry some stuff around and the 2 seater doesn't cut it. Besides, I absolutly f*****g love the way that car handles on the track It is brilliant. One day, slowly, I would like to turn it into a real track car, roll cage, hardtop, gutted, the works. maybe a spec Boxster class. Soon the Boxster will replace the 44 as the affordable track car and I'll be ahead of the curve :p

I orginally was looking at, and still am, p-cars with a hatchback. A 911 would give me a little utility with the rear seats down but I am thinking what I could afford would be too old. I'm just not 911 material yet:cry:

I appreciate the input from all :)

You all can keep debating though :D

[Trak Ratt]

SC's are for people that can't afford Carrera's.
Did I ever show you my favorite poster?

[racer]

I can't use the BOXSTER as a daily, I have to carry some stuff around and the 2 seater doesn't cut it.

What the heck you hauling around anyway? 911 back seats aren't "that" big ;) I think the Boxster makes a fine DD or track car, but I admit that on the track I find it a bit boring... no throttle steering :(

[good hands]

Did I ever show you my favorite poster?

Wrong poster Dave. I think you wanted the index finger edited one :lol:

[vascott99]

was not the first carrera the rs model back in 73....

[Trak Ratt]

Wrong poster Dave. I think you wanted the index finger edited one :lol:Not really... Euro version :p

[Trak Ratt]

was not the first carrera the rs model back in 73....
Actually, the first was a "special" 356 version :)

[SilverStreak]

was not the first carrera the rs model back in 73....

Actually there were several variants of the 356 and some race cars badged as Carreras in the 50's and 60's

[SilverStreak]

Damn! I was looking it up and DR beat me too it :)

[dholling13]

Why not daily drive the Boxster and purchase either an F or G spec PCA club car for the track :)

[henrydbrown]

I've had an '84 Carrerra and an '81 SC and I like the way the SC handles and accelerates better. I prefer the Motronic over the CIS though.

[Trak Ratt]

I've had an '84 Carrerra and an '81 SC and I like the way the SC handles and accelerates better. I prefer the Motronic over the CIS though.I have an '82 SC and an '84 Carrera ('84 is going to be an organ donor for the SC ;))

[racer]

.

[Jazzbass]

I can't use the BOXSTER as a daily, I have to carry some stuff around and the 2 seater doesn't cut it. Besides, I absolutly f*****g love the way that car handles on the track It is brilliant.
Translation: old 911s scare me on the track. :twisted:

IMO, you're insane if you're looking for a pre-90 911 as a DD. The a/c sucks. They're old. Shit breaks on an old car. A DD is a car that starts 99% of the time when you go out in the morning. Not one that breaks head studs or blows up air boxes or whatever. You can make an old 911 a reliable DD, but IMO it'll cost you almost as much as a 5 yr old 996.

Go read Pelican for the end-all-be-all religious flame wars for SCs and Carreras. Mostly its SC guys violently defending their cars, talking about the SCWDP and how they're really "Super Carreras", as if that somehow makes their smaller engine and archaic FI system better. The early SCs are lighter and a little tighter to drive. Later SCs = Carreras as far as weight goes. Carreras have better FI, better user comfort features, better engine cooling, and better HVAC (esp 86+).

If you want a DD, buy a 996. If you want a fun weekend car, buy a Carrera. And if you want car with good responsiveness and handling, buy a Carrera and lighten the shit out of it.

[michael lang]

SilverStreak, I applaud your efforts/desires to want to have 2 P-cars, one as a daily ride and another as a track car. I would like to have the same. But Racer hit the nail on the head when he suggested the 986 be your DD and the 911 be the track car. Since you really don't like that suggestion and if budget is at the top of the list for concerns based on your starting post, then maybe you should be looking at a VW GTI or a Jetta, maybe you could shift your sights to something Japanese, you know a car that won't need alot of expensive parts or an excessive amount of labor for some repairs. Unless you are willing to step up to the plate and pay top money for a very well cared for SC/Carrera, you will pay for it after the purchase. Please don't be discouraged, any of us that own 18+ year old cars can tell you things break or wear out, plus there is also the WYIT factor. If you don't believe me just follow Jazz's thread about what he is doing. Yeah, he was probably planning on alot of it but look at what it has turned into. It's just shy of a complete renovation. I can only cringe at what kind of cash he has dropped on this. I hope you figure this out but my money for a dailly ride would be with something else and focus your resources on modifying your 986.

[SilverStreak]

Translation: old 911s scare me on the track. :twisted:

You can make an old 911 a reliable DD, but IMO it'll cost you almost as much as a 5 yr old 996.



I originally looked at an 86 Targa but the Boxster came along and was too good a deal so I went with it. I have already invested enough into track upgrades that I don't want to start over or put the Boxster back the way it was. Besides, I like it too much.

You have a good point with the 996, they really have come down in price and that might be an alternative.

[Jazzbass]

You have a good point with the 996, they really have come down in price and that might be an alternative.
Any Porsche that you want to be reliable enough to DD is a $25k - $30k car. Period. The only choice is to pay now or pay later.

[86911TLCAB]

are you climbing out of your budget.,...the 996 hasnt come down that much...there is a 78 sc in the antiques section of the post today...selling for under 10...own both and pick and chose what you want to drive that day...i dont have ac in either but if it is hot enough i take the 93 honda which has great ac...wimpy way to deal with the heat...but well worth it...tito

[dholling13]

A 964 Carrera 2 might be another choice. Upgraded AC, better breaks w/ ABS, 3.6 motor and a very good car to turn into a track car :) You'll get the modern amenities of a newer P-car with the air cooled nostalgia of the older ones. Just a thought.

[SilverStreak]

are you climbing out of your budget

Yes :cry:

[SilverStreak]

I think I'll hold out for a Smart car then pkaufman and I can start a spec econobox class series. :lol:

[markwemple]

I'd say that the newer the Porsche, the fatter, or less pure. That goes for the current iteration. The Carerra has a better FI system, no doubt. Less potential headaches, simpler to diagnose (most of the time and this is a relative statement) easier to enhance and simply takes less of the engine bay. The SC probably has the stoutest engine of any 911, period. Also, I personally don't like the feel of the hydraulic clutch of the Carrera. If you like the SC why not look for the rare bear - the 76 carrera. Mostly the same but lighter and rarer. Not sure on the cost or how to find one. One issue is that some came with a 4sp, like the turbo, for some reason.

[good hands]

You need to clarify to the Dorki bretheren that it's not REALLY a daily driver. You work out of your home or drive your truck to one of the million dollar homes you are building. And you don't commute. Ever. So in essence you want another semi-toy that you can have fun driving on nice sunny days when you don't feel like driving your Ford F150 to the jobsite. With this being said buy whatever you want because it is not really your daily driver. In fact I know you could buy a Gt3 if you wanted to but you have that wife thing ..... :lol:

[SilverStreak]

You need to clarify to the Dorki bretheren that it's not REALLY a daily driver. You work out of your home or drive your truck to one of the million dollar homes you are building. And you don't commute. Ever. So in essence you want another semi-toy that you can have fun driving on nice sunny days when you don't feel like driving your Ford F150 to the jobsite. With this being said buy whatever you want because it is not really your daily driver. In fact I know you could buy a Gt3 if you wanted to but you have that wife thing ..... :lol:

Sometimes I have to drive a little ways and carry my lot files with me. I absolutely need another porsche for a DD :)

Besides, if I had a GT3 she'd just take it in the divorce. Even if I got a his and hers she'd take mine in the divorce :lol:

I just want something fun that is not a gas sucking SUV, a major maintenance problem and that I can get excited about driving. Otherwise there'd be a Yaris in my driveway right now.

[good hands]

buy the gt3. get divorced. then i'll date her and the gt3.

[SilverStreak]

buy the gt3. get divorced. then i'll date her and the gt3.

What color do you want? :lol:

[slbates]

I had an SC for over 5 years as a daily driver (including winter). When I bought the car, I took the SC over an 85 Carrera. That being said, I think the SC had better care taken of it vs. the newer one and swayed my decision. The engine and CIS were flawless over the 5 years I owned and drove the car. However, you should budget about 2k per year for maintenance and repairs. That is about what I ended up spending up until I sold it with 200k on the clock .

Strong points
-high feedback handling
-stong engine (like a detuned aircraft engine to increase TBO)
-fun to drive

Weak points
-AC even with updates is marginal
-electrical system
-valve adjusts aren't cheap unless you have the time to do them yourself
-tensioners (I had to replace...luckily before complete failure!)
-warm up regulators
-hanging the tail out maneuvers in the snow will test your abilities

Overall, a fun daily driver.

[Jazzbass]

are you climbing out of your budget.,...the 996 hasnt come down that much...there is a 78 sc in the antiques section of the post today...selling for under 10...

A 30 yr old, sub $10k 911 does not a DD make. Project car yes. DD, not so much.

You need to clarify to the Dorki bretheren that it's not REALLY a daily driver. You work out of your home or drive your truck to one of the million dollar homes you are building. And you don't commute. Ever. So in essence you want another semi-toy that you can have fun driving on nice sunny days when you don't feel like driving your Ford F150 to the jobsite. With this being said buy whatever you want because it is not really your daily driver. In fact I know you could buy a Gt3 if you wanted to but you have that wife thing ..... :lol:

That is completely different. I was thinking real DD, like what Vu needed when he took the PCA gig. > 30 miles each way at rush hour on the beltway. That's a DD. He bought a 996.

If this is an occasional car, drive it when it's fun, whatever, buy a Carrera. If you don't like the G50 and hydraulic clutch, buy a 84-86. In fact, 86 is the best year IMO because its the most refined 915 car, and I masochistically like the 915. 85s are good, too, but the 86s have better ventilation, better sway bars, and a bunch of other minor improvements. And buy a coupe. That way when you end up turning it into a track car, we don't have to listen to you bitch about the flexiness of the targa.

Hmmm... another Dorki spec driver in the making?

[dholling13]

Not too long ago I saw a sweet sunroof delete SC in the low teens. They are out there...

[good hands]

a well sorted 944 turbo is an awsome car with working AC and you can get a good example for around 10k. But i would rather see you get a 911 personally :)

[Dr K]

buy the gt3. get divorced. then i'll date her and the gt3.
Hunt,

Can you post a photo of your wife?

[markwemple]

How does a new GT3 fit w/in the dorki realm? It won't need an engine drop for atleast a year ;) Drew, which do you reccomend, a 964 or a real 911? And, have you ever had to do a valve adjust on a 964? It'll make you wish you went for a 993 for the hydraulics. (That is unless you live the engine drop thing, then its not a problem)

[good hands]

Hunt,

Can you post a photo of your wife?

If i get the GT3 i will post a picture of her in the rear view mirror :lol:

[Mark]

Watch out, too, for a rubber-centered clutch disk, which is prone to failure.

Anyone know when Porsche switched to the metal disks in the SC?

[Trak Ratt]

Watch out, too, for a rubber-centered clutch disk, which is prone to failure.

Anyone know when Porsche switched to the metal disks in the SC?Replacements, if the owner knew better ;) IIRC rubber Cs go all the way to the "dual mass"

[SkipC]

Hunt,
Just went through the same thing. Ended up buying an '84 Carrera. Unless there's something about either that makes one a lot better choice to you, I'd suggest looking at as many as you can find from you price ceiling down. Then buy the one that is in the best condition and has up to date maintenance (with records), regardless of whether its an SC or Carrera. Be sure to get a PPI by a reputable shop or dealer !!
For either model, the dorkis here can tell you what should be (or should have been) replaced for any given mileage.
Any reason why you are not considering '84 & '85 Carreras ??
You'll be love either one as long as its in the best condition possible.
Good Luck !!!!!

[Dave O]

If you like the SC why not look for the rare bear - the 76 carrera.

I love my '77 Carrera 3.0 (same as the '76). You can find them in Pano, and usually not a whole lot more than the same year SC. YMMV of course. :)

[SilverStreak]

Any reason why you are not considering '84 & '85 Carreras ??
You'll be love either one as long as its in the best condition possible.
Good Luck !!!!!

Skip

The only reason I would pass on those years would be transmissions. I could be wrong, and if so I'll be corrected instantly, I had thought that the '86-89 eliminated a problem rubber hub in the clutch thingamajig. Most of all I like the body style of 74 - 89. I will look for the one in the best condition I can find and not get hung up on SC vs. Carrera. It seems to be a toss up opinion wise ;)

[Jazzbass]

The only reason I would pass on those years would be transmissions. I could be wrong, and if so I'll be corrected instantly, I had thought that the '86-89 eliminated a problem rubber hub in the clutch thingamajig.

Transmission != clutch. All 911s from 1972 to 1986 had basically the same transmission - the infamous 915. If you'll look at SCs, then 84-86 Carrera should be part of your search, too, because transmission-wise they are the same. I've never seen a 915 car with it's original rubber centered clutch, so I wouldn't worry about it really. Even my car, which was completely unmolested until I bought it, had a spring centered clutch. BTW, 86s have the 915 like the 84-85 cars. The G50 didn't come along until 87. Then you have to worry about the G50 clutch update.

What it comes down to is there is a set of well known issues with these cars depending on the year: pre-Carrera style chain tensioners, rubber centered clutch, G50 clucch issue, CIS exploding air box issue, etc. 90% of the cars you look at will have had these problems addressed by now. Bottom line? If you'll consider a 915 based car, there's no reason to not consider 84s and 85s. In fact, my personal "top 5" 915 cars looks like this:

1. 1972
2. 1973
3. 1986
4. 1985
5. 1984

[NoVaGator]

for what it's worth, my G50 has the original clutch

(at least the PO had no recollection of replacing it)

[TD in DC]

for what it's worth, my G50 has the original clutch

(at least the PO had no recollection of replacing it)

Just like he had no recollection of stuffing it into a wall at Summit, right?

:lol:

Just joking . . .

[NoVaGator]

Just like he had no recollection of stuffing it into a wall at Summit, right?

:lol:

Just joking . . .

:lol::lol::lol: (sounds like a Jeep I sold a few years ago:twisted: )

joking aside...

the PO was my mother's best friend......a woman who is celebrating her 70th birthday this weekend.

I remember the day she brought it home from the dealership during the summer that I graduated from HS:shock:

[BobNovas]

I brought my first Porsche home the day that I graduated from my first wife... Damn, did I say that or did I think that?

[Rick V]

Looking for a car based on year, or SC vs Carrera doesn't hold much water. I can have 4 SC's lined up for you to look at. They are all within a couple of years of each other, they are all in good shape, and they are all completly diff. from each other.
Start driving cars that are within your price range and find the one you want. SC or Carrera, it doesn't matter, they are all thier own cars and all feel unique.
JMO

[michael lang]

I brought my first Porsche home the day that I graduated from my first wife... Damn, did I say that or did I think that?

Damn dude, that's rough