East coast '71 chassis repair help needed

[kaefer]

East coast '71 chassis repair help needed - panel replacements, rust repairs, chassis reinforcing.

Right now my '71 coupe is for the most part a bare shell. It needs the typical inner rockers replaced, front battery boxes removed and welded, rear torsion bar tube area cleaned up, and a few other chassis related repairs. I'm looking to end up with a very nice street car chassis, not a race car chassis.

I've been planning on doing these repairs myself though I'm somewhat nervous about my time commitment that would be required to complete these repairs in my workshop. So I figure perhaps I should check around and find the east coast early car Porshce chassis specialists and find out who may be interested in the project, how much they would charge to make the repairs, and what the turn around time would be.

Any suggestions?

I'm located in Virginia but I'd be willing to trailer the chassis out of state to bring to the right person/shop to make the repairs.

Here is the thread that has been hightlighting the project so far:
http://www.dorkiphus.com/porsche/showthread.php?t=10540

Also FWIW, I have an '85 targa chassis that could be used for donor metal for some of the sections.

Thanks for the help,
-Scott

[BlackTalon]

Karosserie is *the* only place to go for top-quality early Porsche body repairs - ttp://www.carcarevalues.com/SponsorPages/bizinfo.asp?spid=3355&site=1 (http://www.carcarevalues.com/SponsorPages/bizinfo.asp?spid=3355&site=1)

They're in NoVa.

[smdubovsky]

Yeah, but can any of us afford them (Karosserie) ;) They quoted me ~5 figure values to add flares (on two different occasions - one for the 911 and one for the 914). If I remember about 40hrs PER flare. They can do fantastic work though. Really neat guys to chat w/.

SMD
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[Trak Ratt]

They did our 356, floors, longitudinals, front and rear suspension parts, battery tray. Was pricy but done on time, well documented with photos, phone calls, visits. There are others in area but most are semi retired, semi professional. Mid $$ teens for what you describe sounds about right. K doesn’t like filler, knows the original structures, honest as the day is long. But there are good folk around that might be able to do a good job for less.

[kaefer]

From the responses I've been seeing here and on Pelican I can start to see why backdating a shorthood starts to make sense $$$-wise if you're looking for the longhood 'look'.

I'm taking a stab that Karosserie's price for the work that I'd like done on my '71 is $10k-$15k. For that price I could find a non-sunroof SC roller and backdate with my '71 parts.

Should I backdate a SC roller? I don't know. It could be easier and possibly less expensive. Galvanized chassis as well...

Should I throw $15k at my '71 911T chassis to have it done right in a reasonable amount of time? If it was a S then I'd say yes. For a bastard T? I don't know.

Ahh...the joys of vintage metal....

[smdubovsky]

Scott,
I know the purists will cringe, but as long as we are bastardizing a car... There is a really simple way to backdate the front of an SC (SalazarS2Ks RS clone is done this way off a 75 chassis). The builder moved the latch back on the hood vs grafting in the longer trunk panel latch. Far less work and doesn't require cutting up either tub. Technically a short hood, fenders, and bumper could be bolted right back on. Or add rubber latches / hood pins and eliminate the latch entirely. The short hood chassis should give more room up front for an oil cooler anyway;)

Still, there is some porsche karma involved for saving a LH. But, $$-wise it likely doesn't make sense. You have to decide.

SMD
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[Trak Ratt]

Glass and fiber LH hoods now available with SH latch built in for use on SH chassis. '75 aren’t galvanized so must just have had a good one. Back dating SC Carrere makes sense for other reasons too.

[kaefer]

Scott,
I know the purists will cringe, but as long as we are bastardizing a car... There is a really simple way to backdate the front of an SC (SalazarS2Ks RS clone is done this way off a 75 chassis). The builder moved the latch back on the hood vs grafting in the longer trunk panel latch. Far less work and doesn't require cutting up either tub. Technically a short hood, fenders, and bumper could be bolted right back on. Or add rubber latches / hood pins and eliminate the latch entirely. The short hood chassis should give more room up front for an oil cooler anyway;)

Still, there is some porsche karma involved for saving a LH. But, $$-wise it likely doesn't make sense. You have to decide.

SMD

I agree with what you say. I also think there is some Porsche karma involved with saving a 3.2 drivetrain and stuffing it in an early non-sunroof lightweight chassis...either a real longhood chassis or a backdated shorthood converted into a longhood.

Decisions, decisions. Right now I've got all the parts to convert a SC to a longhood....or.....spend the time and money to fix up my '71 chassis.

Either way the end result will be a 3.2 bastard longhood.

[Rick V]

I can see the wheels turning Scott. This is starting to scare me. :) You can fix the 71, I know you can do it. It's kind of like spraying metalic paint. You know what I'm talking about.

[smdubovsky]

'75 aren?t galvanized so must just have had a good one.

I thought 75 got tub galvanization and 76 was full. One of the bigwig books says something like that. I've had a good look as his chassis on a lift (I did the "PPI") and it has less rust than my SC (very little). Its either galvanized or has been a CA car for most of its life.

Good to know about the fiber hoods for conversions. Gets the wheels turning...

SMD
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[kaefer]

I can see the wheels turning Scott. This is starting to scare me. :) You can fix the 71, I know you can do it. It's kind of like spraying metalic paint. You know what I'm talking about.

[repeating over and over in my head]
I know I can fix the '71 chassis, I know I can fix the '71 chassis...
[/repeating over and over in my head]

The question is 'do I want to' in the short term? I'm starting to think a non-sunroof '78-'82 SC chassis may be a better starting point. It's stronger, more rust resistant, and few rust repairs would be needed. If I prepped the chassis the only difference in weight would be from increased strength.

Now, what about long term? Long term is I'll hold onto the '71 chassis. I can work on the chassis over the years and one day it will be back on the road...

Who knows....I'm just thinking about my options here...
:)

[MikeDL]

I'm not sure a SC conversion would be stronger or more rust resistant. Good work on the '71 should make it as strong as new, and modern chemical protection of the new work could be _much_ better than the ~25 year old galvanization on the SC. I've seen a galvanized car rust in all the longhood places.

Another thing to consider is resale value. Compared to the conversion approach, the '71 fixup will be more expensive now, but should be worth way more 10 years down the road, especially if you have the work done properly and documented.

Or at least these are the things I would tell my wife. Good luck!

[Trak Ratt]

Another thing to consider is resale value. Compared to the conversion approach, the '71 fixup will be more expensive now, but should be worth way more 10 years down the road, especially if you have the work done properly and documented.
Totally agree except building a track rat with any thoughts of resale value is destined to disappoint from the jump. Sh*t happens and bad sh*t happens at the track.

[Rick V]

I have seen all the spots Scott is refering to. I would do it if it were mine. Scott can do it. We discussed the options on sat, while we worked on his SC. (get pulled over yet? :) ) I think the thought of resale value is not relivent. We are talking about a 71 with a 3.2 from an 85 stuffed in. (OH-YEAH) This car is to enjoy not to invest in.
Do it yourself Scott.

[kaefer]

Here is an example of what I'd be building. Available for $22.5k on Pelican right now:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=309148

At this point - assuming a 100% straight and rust free chassis with a nice engine, trans, and suspension - the car above is a pretty good deal.

My parts:
Here's what I've got that I can easily use for a longhood bastard:
-2 sets of front longhood fenders, glass and OEM rusty fenders
-nice '71 OEM hood and engine lid
-decent '71 doors w/ manual windows
-15" Fuchs
-glass front and rear bumpers
-all '71 exterior trim + lights
-pop out rear windows
-'85 3.2 engine, 915 trans, suspension, and brakes

Some options:
1. Spend $15k and have my '71 chassis professionally restored + the cost of 'while you're in there' + the (X) time is takes me to put the car together, and end up with a '71 3.2 bastard. Estimated build cost $25k plus (X) time.

2. Spend 100 hours of my time (Y) + $1k for replacement panels + the cost of 'while you're in there' + the (X) time is takes me to put the car together and end up with a '71 3.2 bastard. Estimated build cost $11k plus (X+Y) hours.

3. Find a rust free '78 - '82 non-sunroof roller or shell for $3k - $8k, spend 30 hours dismantling and prepping the chassis (Z) + the cost of 'while you're in there' + the (X) time is takes me to put the car together, and end up with an '80ish longhood 3.2 bastard. Estimated build cost $13k-$18k plus (X+Z) time.

4. Sell my parts listed above for $10k and buy the car on Pelican for $20k. :)

Some considerations:
-The '71 chassis is a bastardized non-sunroof coupe.
-I don't have the matching numbers '71 engine and trans. I do have an '85 3.2 drivetrain.
-Resale value is somewhat relevent. I'm guessing I'll own this car for 3-10 years.
-Not building a track car. Building a street car that may run some DE and auto-x events.

Conclusion
Don't know yet. Again, just thinking out loud...

[Motomodz]

Yeah, but can any of us afford them (Karosserie) ;) They quoted me ~5 figure values to add flares (on two different occasions - one for the 911 and one for the 914). If I remember about 40hrs PER flare. They can do fantastic work though. Really neat guys to chat w/.

SMD


SMD, am I reading this correctly, $10K+ for 80+/- hrs worth of work.....so, approx $125 / hour? Did this estimate includes repainting the quarters and roof and perhaps blending the paint into the doors or ???....what did it include exactly? thanks.