DE seats?

[4to8m8]

Hi Gents, I need some advice for track seats that are bearable for limited street use aswell. Also, After 5pt harness is installed does the driver have to be fully strapped in for street use? This seems like a pain.

[cmartin]

Keep the stock belts for street use, most 5 pts arent DOT legal anyway.

[Mackpipes]

To my knowlege, the only DOT approved "Harness" is a 4 point Schroth harness, which uses 2" webbing. I don't think this would be the best thing for DE's. I use a 5 point 3" harness for DE's and stock 3 points for street. The harnesses snap in and out in 5 minutes. And yes, harnesses on the street get old real quick, ask me how I know.;)

[TD in DC]

And yes, harnesses on the street get old real quick, ask me how I know.;)

Ditto.

[William Miller]

Can you use 5 point with stock seats, or since there is no hole for the sub belt do you need to go to 6 point? On a 6 point where do the front straps mount?

[cmartin]

Depends on what group you run with....

[87turbolook911]

My car sees limited street use, just nice days and fun runs, but the Sparco Evo 2's have been just fine. They are far more comfortable than the factory seats. I drove to Hershey and it was no problem. Getting in and out is a bit more "exercising", but it doesn't bother me.

Best investment I've made to the car. On the street I use the stock belts and of course 5-points harness for track duty.

[}{arlequin]

ditto about retaining the stock belts.

[4to8m8]

That clear's it up. Everyone keeps the stock belts for street use. I'll check out the Sparco Evo 2's.

[Cliff Claven]

You could put a fixed back seat on the driver side and a Monza on the passenger side to allow access to the back seat.

[Mackpipes]

You could put a fixed back seat on the driver side and a Monza on the passenger side to allow access to the back seat.

You may want to check with Kurt via the Potomac PCA tech site. I believe the seats must be the same for both driver and instructor for DE's. I take my passeger side fixed back seat out for back seat access but leave in the drivers shell. It only takes 10 minutes to put it back in for DE's

[Cliff Claven]

I asked once but don't remember the answer. I believe they say restraints have to be the same. Maybe depends whether you consider the style of seat (fixed vs. reclining)as part of the restraint system; but a monza seat accomodates the harness restraint quite nicely. Of course if you're not instructed it does not matter.

[Mackpipes]

I knew the part about the equal restraints. I'm not 100% on the seats needing to be equal as well. I remember someone wanting to run a racing shell and a stock seat and them beign told it was a no-go. I could just be talking out my a$$. It happens every once in a while.;)

[}{arlequin]

bucket and stock seat is a definite no go... unless uninstructed

but, a bucket and a tube frame bucket is ok, as well as sliders and no-sliders on either seat seems to be within spec... which leaves a bit of a grey area, but i'm not sure whether a reclining vs. non-reclining will be viewed the same, even if both have 5-pt harness slots.

[4to8m8]

I am in fact still being instructed and do plan on putting in equal seats/restraints. Probably something like the Monza's. I have two little girls that love to ride in the "race car" so reclining seats are a must.

[cmartin]

Depending who you run with you need 'equal restraints'. Some groups (Potomac) interpret this to mean, at least from what I've read and been told, to be similar seats and harnesses. So, fixed seats in both places, or reclining seats in both places. Same goes for harnesess. Also, Potomac doesnt like harnesses with stock seats, makes sense, while other groups dont seem to care.

Other groups are a little different.

[William Miller]

Also, Potomac doesnt like harnesses with stock seats, makes sense, while other groups dont seem to care.

Why? I've been looking into this, and learning a little.
PCA race rules require a racing seat and harness, but this is DE.
DE tech form suggests that 5 or 6 point are acceptable, but doesn't specify that a racing seat is required.

SCCA recommends 6 point over 5 point and allows the sub belts attached to the same point as the seat belt. With a stock seat you would sit on the 2 sub belts. I assume with a racing seat there would be slots near the sides for these belts to exit the seat.

[Jazzbass]

Why? I've been looking into this, and learning a little.
PCA race rules require a racing seat and harness, but this is DE.
DE tech form suggests that 5 or 6 point are acceptable, but doesn't specify that a racing seat is required.
Its frowned on because stock seats put the shoulder harnesses too far apart on your upper body, leading to the chance that you could slip between the upper harnesses in an impact.

Racing seats put the upper harnesses closer to your neck and further from your shoulders, thus holding you in and reducing the chance of slipping out in an impact. In fact, I've seen some instructors refuse to wear harnesses in a car without racing seats, opting instead for the 3pt belt.

Now, if you are considering racing seats and harnesses, then you need to consider a roll bar, too. Seats and harnesses will keep you upright in an accident, and if there is a roll-over and the roof colapses, you'll probably be killed when the roof breaks your neck becuase the restraints kept you upright. At least, that's the common logic that you'll be told by most, esp by those who want to sell you a roll bar. I know several guys that have been around the track a while who've never seen a roof colapse in an accident, but I personally am not about to become the first. :D

So, IMO, if you're going to go seats + harnesses, you need a roll bar too. Which eliminates the back seats for your daughters unless you uninstall after every DE. In which case, you might as well just get fixed back seats and do like Ted, using the stock passenger seat between events and spending 1/2 hour before and after each event to swap them out.

[Manny Alban]

Chris has it 100% right. harness, race seats, roll bar...they're all part of a safety system. I'm one of those instructors who'll opt for a three point stock belt over a harness when sitting in a stock seat.

If you were at the club race, you might have seen a 996 cup car that had severe roof damage from an apparent rollover. The cage did a wonderful job of wrapping itself around the roof and protecting the driver.

[4to8m8]

In April of this year at a DE (VIR)I wittnesed a GT2 drive over the top of a 914. The roll bar saved HER life! I do plan on installing a roll bar this winter. I was not aware that this would eliminate the back seat though?

[racer]

It elimates it from a passenger perspective. You wouldn't want little unprotected heads bouncing off metal bars if you had an accident on the street (or were a victim of an accident)...

[cmartin]

Depends on the cage/bar, but no matter, room is severly hampered.

[Dr K]

I've heard that seat belts stretch 10% in an accident, so if you don't have a roll-bar, the length of the shoulder belts going all the way to the lower attachment points will allow that long belt to stretch quite a bit, suggesting wearing both the 3-point lap AND the harness. Any comments?

Seconds (and very related) - what's the latest on the "roll-bar" capability of the Targa roll bar?

[VaSteve]

I've heard that seat belts stretch 10% in an accident, so if you don't have a roll-bar, the length of the shoulder belts going all the way to the lower attachment points will allow that long belt to stretch quite a bit, suggesting wearing both the 3-point lap AND the harness. Any comments?

Seconds (and very related) - what's the latest on the "roll-bar" capability of the Targa roll bar?

This guy lived....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads4/DSC011601105994045.jpg

[William Miller]

OK, makes sence. Until I get racing seats, I'm going to lok into better 3 point set up.
Actually if I could find a set that I can tighten sungly (at least the lap belt), it would be much better than the retractable type that is stock.
Any issues with that idea?
Thanks!

[cmartin]

Snug the belt, then move the seat one notch closer.

[William Miller]

Thanks Chris, maybe I don't have the right technique to get the retracting mechanism to lock. It only does that in a real panic situation if I'm not holding myself back.

I fixed the buckles on my rear manual seatbelts a while back and think that those buckles might would work well for this. Imagine the loose end going up and over your sholder.
http://www.dorkiphus.com/gallery/files/0/Rear_Seat_Belt_Adjustment.jpg

[Charlie Stylianos]

Actually if I could find a set that I can tighten sungly (at least the lap belt), it would be much better than the retractable type that is stock.
Any issues with that idea?
Thanks!

Doug gave me a locking clip from one of his child seats. It really does work well. I used it with my OEM 3-point until I installed harnesses.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/childps/newtips/images/Tip4E.gif

[William Miller]

Great Idea, I probably have a bunch of those.........somewhere.....