Friday at the track. FATT? What's it all about?

[William Miller]

I'm very intrested because with all the kids stuff on the weekend this may be a easier sell to Sharon.
How's it work?
What do I need to qualify?

[CrewChief]

Go to www.bsr-inc.com find the phone number and the track schedule then call them and reserve for the next available FATT. Like novice with Founders' it fills early and has a wait list so you have to plan ahead.

Simply put it is the same as our Driver's Education with the added attraction of a skidpad session in THIER car not yours!! You do not get a tech ahead of time but the car is inspected briefly at the track the morning of. This is the one venue that at last check allowed shorts/short sleeves.

$225 for the day.

Register early, register often. Add a track day to your Founders Driver record after you complete each FATT. WE want to know about ALL your experience not just with us.

[Chopper Dropper]

Interesting events, lot of different cars, original minis, Bricklands, datsuns, mustangs etc. Usually a few Porsches, and probably more PCA instructors as a group than others, usually at least 7 or more. Sign up early, like our events they fill up quick. Pretty much same format and "rules", with added skid pad in their Caprices or Crown Vics.
Dirk

[Jazzbass]

$225 for the day.

Yikes - I hope you get a lot of track time for that price. Maybe I'm just spoiled by PCA prices, where the same amount pays for my weekend and the beverages afterward.

[DAR951]

Yikes - I hope you get a lot of track time for that price. Maybe I'm just spoiled by PCA prices, where the same amount pays for my weekend and the beverages afterward.

The answer is yes to "both"... Yes, there's a bunch of track time (four 20-minute sessions, plus a session on the skid-pad in a BSR car); and yes, you're spoiled by the cost of a Potomac DE... best bang for the buck in the business...

[William Miller]

Is there an instructor with the novices for all sessions?

[Robert in Potomac]

FATT is divided into two groups, advanced and "non-advanced", at least, it was last year. It is very similar to PCA drivers ed, except I found it a little less stringent in some areas. I drove my Mini in the advanced group, in the rain, and had a great time overtaking a number of faster cars, including Porsches.

The one area that concerned my a little was the lack of discipline amongst certain drivers, at least compared to our drivers ed sessions. But, I would consider it almost on the same level as PCA drivers ed.

[CrewChief]

Is there an instructor with the novices for all sessions?

Yes. Exactly as a PCA DE. All the various venues are more alike than different. The differences are all in the details.

[Cliff Claven]

and yes, you're spoiled by the cost of a Potomac DE... best bang for the buck in the business...

That recent Schattenbaum SP event comes to mind--5 (that's FIVE) half hour sessions on track each day, and just a few dollars more than a Potomac event. And since they don't get the much-desired weekend scheduling slots that Potomac is fortunate enough to lock up, they run more weekday events. The perfect solution if you're tied up with family commitments on weekends and can get away from work during the week. And they are a nice bunch of people.

[Chopper Dropper]

Agree Schattenbaum are a great bunch. Most DEs are pretty much run the same way. Some allow short sleves and even shorts. Potomac has the reputation of being the "fastest" in most groups as well as well organised, not saying others are not. Some insist you work corners, sometimes make work type stuff. Some will not allow "supervised solo" ie sign off in green to practise solo for a session or two. Have been to some groups where instructors were only provided if you said you wanted one and had to pay pretty big bucks. FATT does not assign instructors, students line up on grid and instructors walk the line like "h**kers" and pick out their choice.Last one gets the brand new viper with brand new harness and the driver in a brand new driving suit with Schumacher badges all over it. :roll:
Dirk

[forklift]

Last one gets the brand new viper with brand new harness and the driver in a brand new driving suit with Schumacher badges all over it. :roll:
Dirk

LOL, I always pick a civic!

[Vicegrip]

I go for Vetts myself. Couldn't be further from my car and very fun to drive.

"Can I drove your car?"

[Alan Herod]

LOL, I always pick a civic! .... I go for Vetts myself

You guys are funny -- the day I hopped in the 0/0 student's 'stock' Z and Dirk jumped in the Bricklin changed my attitude about what car I would like to instruct in -- possibly for life. I like the Civics/STIs/EVOs/Saturn too.

Also, somebody still owes me for a really big favor.

It may be fun to 'drove' a 0/0 student's very trick car; but then there is a serious price to pay. Seriously, I like some things about the FATT format - Students get a grade card and are evaluated at each session. The instructor gives the card back to the student and the student gives it to the next instructor to fill out. The BSR instructors are also excellent with a wealth of experience in many areas.

I highly recommend checking it out at least once. Many of our students have advanced by using FATT as another opportunity to gain experience.

[forklift]

Many of our students have advanced by using FATT as another opportunity to gain experience.

When I bought my car in 2003 Potomac was using the lottery system for DEs and when I applied in July they said they were sold out for the year. That is why I started going to FATTs, then my instructor told me about Mazda Drivers, then I found NASA, etc. Because of the way things progressed from that lottery, I have ony done about 10 DE days out of 44 with PCA since 8/03.

With that being said I still think PCA DEs are the best bargain out there for non-instructors. I will be going to my second Potomac DE in May at SPR and look forward to it (I have been to a few Zone 2s, a NNJR and a Shat. also). I am also signed up for the June SPR event. If you guys will be at the Friday the 13th FATT, please stop by and say hello. Due to work it will be my first FATT this year.

Jim

[Chopper Dropper]

I am intending to be at the May 13 FATT to instruct, followed by our 2 day event.
Dirk

[Chopper Dropper]

The "stock" Z Alan refers to had a chebby 350 in it with nothing else done to 20 or so year ols suspension, brakes or anything else.Very poorly prepped car. The Bricklin I landed with had a cobra 427 motor lousy brakes and suspension and driver with heavy foot on the straights till a connecting rod let go and punched a whole out the block.This happened at the Apex of 1, left a trail of oil whilst I was trying to reach the wheel to get the car off the track onto the grass because he was not listening to me yelling get the car off the track. Finally parked on the inside of 2.Always stay in the car with helmet on and seat belts on. Couple laps later this infamous Z hits the oil, spins, misses passenger side of the Bricklin by inches at 60+ MPH as he goes up the bank, somehow doesn't hit us or roll. If we had got out to climb the bank to "safety" we would have been smeared big time. Driver and instructor, not Alan this run had been in the pits when the oil flag was out so had not seen any potential. It was pretty damn scarry cowering in the passenger seat watching the rear view mirror at this Z coming straight at me.
Dirk

[forklift]

I was there that day if the Z was white (Briklin was yellow?). He was pretty pissed. I forgot who I was instructing, but we stayed wide left to miss that mess. Glad nobody was hurt.

[Vicegrip]

Sheesh! Less anyone think I am advocating unsafe or selfish instructor activity I am not. The policy at FATT is for the instructor of a 0.0 student to drive the students car at a much reduced rate the first two laps. I have found this to be very helpful and have not had ANY students think otherwise. I point out the corner numbers and stations on lap one and show the line, turn in, out, and apex points on lap two. Driving a students car fast is not helpful and in fact for a 0.0, counterproductive as you can't convey much of anything to someone that has just shit themselves. I try to pick late model Vetts because they are fun to drive and ride in. They are for the most part safe, fast and likely to be in good condition.

I still want to drove you car... :wink:

[Alan Herod]

I did in fact drive the first two laps the car (or the student) had ever had on a race track. I did not notice that it was other then a 240Z until I got in it. The conversion work was nicely done. I thought it would be fun since I had raced a Z in SCCA. Brakes on a Z are not up to the worst Porsche brakes, so I did not expect anything special there, and was not disappointed or surprised. I did expect the car to handle as well as a Porsche, but the engine weight seemed to over power the near stock suspension. What really was unusual, even at the moderate pace I was driving the power was overwhelming the cars ability to accelerate in a straight line. When you braked, the car slewed itself, sort of like it knew I wanted it to rotate. This was at relatively low speed on the orientation laps. It was frightening to switch seats. After the session, I immediately sought out the Chief Instructor to insure that subsequent instructors would be up to the challenge. The student had put a lot of work into his car and was very attentive to instruction. I believe the error was with the flagger not keeping the slippery flag up. I saw the flag and the oil trail and saw Dirk's student's car parked at the end of the oil trail. Seems like one or two laps later, we drove by, my student flogging his Saturn, and saw the Z parked near Dirk's ride. No flags yet -- I suggested to my student that we should plan on going in.

[Chopper Dropper]

Yes FATT policy is to drive the students car the first couple of laps, usually only for the first session, and maybe later if they are having a problem with the line etc. Yeah it was the white Z and the yellow Bricklin. Really made a mess of that block. The Flagger at 1 I guess could not see all the oil and us parked at the side, but the flagger at 3 should have had better communication and advised black flagging which only happened after the Z spun. He also punctured his fuel tank. have to say I enjoy instructing at FATT, though we tend not to get much track time, but the price is right.It helps one learn to evaluate students pretty quickly, and be honest on the eval cards.Great having a wide mix of machinery as well.
Dirk

[forklift]

I like instructing for BSR also, and although we don't get much track time on FATT days, I love the two credits = a free Seat Time deal.

Jim