Track tires and ambient temperature [Archive]

rs911t

03-02-2005, 08:44 AM

Do R-compound or slicks have an ambient operating temperature? Obviously, they don't work well until warm, but is there a threshold at which it make no sense to even try running them? We're going to be at Summit Point in 10 days with morning temps likely below freezing. What's this mean for the Hoosier slicks on the Beastie?

Chopper Dropper

03-02-2005, 09:14 AM

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: You gonna have all sorts of fun, You will have a handfull, even if the track is 100% dry. They will warm up eventually. If you use R compound ie Toyo RA1s you will be better off, probably have to start them off at mid 30s. Two thoughts, low pressure allows more flexing so heats up tyres more.Higher pressure because you want to end up at about 40 (psi) The beast is going to be sucking down a s**t load of cold air, ie more O2 per lungfull, as they said on that TV show, be careful out there!!
Dirk

rs911t

03-02-2005, 09:18 AM

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
Can I take this to mean you don't want to be my instructor? I guess that's ok - Kurt and Bill volunteered. :lol:

Don Wohlfarth

03-02-2005, 09:29 AM

Greg, does "tiptoe thru the tulips" sound familar? ;)
Type R and slicks have an ideal operating range, usually 160-200 degrees. Dirk said they will warm up eventually but probably not in a 20 minute session. :oops:
You're asking the tires to do something their not designed to do, adjust your driving.

Marc A

03-02-2005, 02:29 PM

Sounds like the Tractor car should get the nod until July or Aug . . . . for your safety of course :roll:

BillJ

03-02-2005, 02:47 PM

March is sooooo iffy. Never know what you are gonna get! I have seen snow, downpours one day then sunny and dry the next, but almost always cold as all get out. Green car may have better chance of staying off the green stuff, if you catch my 4 wheel drift....

Chopper Dropper

03-02-2005, 04:20 PM

Keep off the green stuff!! More likely West Va. reddish clay that will suck you in.Guess who has to get out and hook up???. You got heat in that monster??? I can see the sweat pouring off of you as you try to tip toe around :P I never used to do the March DE as Mr J said, it can be all kinds of nasty. Go now to help instruct and with the intention of just taking it nice and slow if I can,temptation is always there to push just a little more. Lets do a rain and snow dance to appease the powers, then we might just get lucky.
Dirk

rs911t

03-02-2005, 04:59 PM

You got heat in that monster???

No. Which is the real reason why the T gets to attend the first DE of the season. :D

APKhaos

03-02-2005, 05:02 PM

First time I drove #11 was at the TriangleZ Club VIR event in early Feb last year. Naturally, I wanted to get a good sense of what it could do. You can see what's coming, right? That's when I learned that MPSCs with tons on tread depth can be hard as nails, which combined with a cold track can be verrry entertaining.

By the end of the event I thought that every corner could be four wheel drifted, and hanging the tial out at Oak Tree was the only way around.

Is there some hidden reason why they call slicks that name???

racer

03-02-2005, 06:19 PM

March 12: 58 degrees and sunny
March 13: 63 degrees with warm westerly breezes.

I think a more positive approach to the weather should be adopted. Then again, I've run A032r's in the "slush" at Lime Rock.. its all fun :D

Jase007

03-02-2005, 08:04 PM

Greg:

WHile the $ is pouring out ... pick up a pyrometer. Especially, if you are going to continue to run slicks on the 930. If you want, we can share some of the tire temps / settings we use at the tracks you'll run. Have to factor in suspension settings, comparative weights of cars (RSR and 930), etc... might be a jump off point at least. We used to run hoosiers but have gone back to goodyears.

Even using the pyrometer, we'll chase tire pressures throughout the day as weather, track, wear, oil, AF, etc.... changes track conditions.

Can't say that we've run slicks when it is freezing but have run them when it is raining :shock:

YMMV, etc...

Jase

rs911t

03-02-2005, 08:18 PM

Can't say that we've run slicks when it is freezing but have run them when it is raining
I think Dave's on to something - it's all fun.

bettyc

03-03-2005, 04:03 PM

Why does everyone want to make slicks out to be the big, bad tires?
What are you guys afraid of? :shock:

Seriously, we have run the cup car, the 914 and the RUF on slicks March through Dec at events without problem.

If you think about it the slicks should work better than RA's. Softer compound and more rubber on the pavement=more friction=more heat and more stick.

If the 914 were running I'd be out there on slicks. Just up the starting pressure and slide it around (gently!) the first few laps to get heat in them.

And yes I'll get in the right seat with anyone with slicks next weekend.... :roll:

Parenn911

03-03-2005, 04:17 PM

}{arlequin

03-03-2005, 04:45 PM

might as well not beat around the bush and hope for some miracle... mid-40's most likely....

http://wwwa.accuweather.com/adcbin/public/local_index_6to10day.asp?zipcode=25446&metric=0&pa rtner=accuweather

http://wwwa.accuweather.com/adcbin/public/local_index_11to15day.asp?zipcode=25446&metric=0&p artner=accuweather

Charlie Stylianos

03-03-2005, 04:45 PM

.....I need to get a new set of tires for the 3/12 Summit Point DE. I want to get a set of Hoosier slicks - Does anyone know who has the best price on them? I hear they grip a LOT better than RA-1s, and I hear that will really help me learn the car in my first few DEs. :wink:

Jazzbass

03-03-2005, 04:47 PM

}{arlequin

03-03-2005, 04:48 PM

make sure you pay extra for the heat cycled ones... they will almost do the driving for you

rs911t

03-03-2005, 05:12 PM

And yes I'll get in the right seat with anyone with slicks next weekend....

Damn! She's already married ... :D

I suppose I'd better get the Beast ready for tech!

bettyc

03-04-2005, 09:05 AM

OK. I came on a little stong there. Sorry. I've now had time to calm down. :oops:

I hear from a lot of people, most of whom have never driven on slicks, about how twitchy they are, how until you warm them up they have no grip.

The reality is that slicks have more grip out of the box than RA's just like RA's have more grip than regular street tires. This is why they are so cool to drive on. This allows me to take turns faster and generally attack the course more aggressively than with other tires.

They are NOT good for anyone trying to hone their driving skills or someone doing car set up because they cover a myriad of mistakes that will come back to haunt you. They are also not great in the wet. (You'll notice our cars tend to sit in the trailer when it's raining.) Oh, and they are not good in the brake zone of turn 1 at VIR on the first lap. Gotta do something about the sand down there... 8)

Obviously this is a hot button for me along with the "big, bad car" syndrome. All cars are basically the same. As they get tweaked things just happen faster. They are only big, bad cars if you're not paying attention to what the car is telling you and reacting in an appropriate manner (as in quick enough and gently enough).

I'll still ride right seat with anyone with slicks next weekend...
:D

Chopper Dropper

03-04-2005, 10:21 AM

No argument Betty, its not the cars or tyres, its the nut behind the wheel. I have always believed you can have as much fun and learn more sliding a car around on hard street tyres. Slicks are fun and I have used them wet and dry.If its wet, cars that you normally leave in the dust will likely pass you. My angle has always been its better to learn as in DE how to drive the car first before trying to buy more speed with tyres or mods. I hate seeing someone stuff a nice car into a wall because they thought the tyres were more capable, and have seen it happen to instructors, racers and F1 drivers.Simple choice, performance tyres and cars give less warning and take a lot more experience to recognise, so make your choice and make allowances for it. Like Betty, I do not have a problem going right seat with a student on slicks, and I don't think any instructor would have a problem as long as the student or whoever has a good attitude and is willing to listen and learn. I have also learnt a lot from students, who through instinct or from another instructor has done something that worked that I may not have tried or done.
Dirk

rs911t

03-04-2005, 10:51 AM

the nut behind the wheel
Hey! I resemble that remark!

BillJ

03-04-2005, 11:02 AM

the nut behind the wheel
Hey! I resemble that remark!

You sure do!! JUST KIDDING. :lol:

Check the weather report. Any sign of inclement weather, would bring something with tread on it, or that has wheels that fit with tread on it that you can put in case of said weather conditions. Or just park it if you dont want to take your chances. Either way the march event is usually a warm-up for the season and many people that have been doing it a while treat it that way. Sure is a long season and the local pca chapter has lots of events. Best thing about this kind of event is you get a chance to shake off the rust (for some of us that is literal) and get back in the swing of things.

Best part: YOU GET TO DRIVE FAST :D

Trak Ratt

03-04-2005, 11:07 AM

If the 914 were running I'd be out there on slicks. Just up the starting pressure and slide it around (gently!) the first few laps to get heat in them. :roll:

What’s up with the teener :?: More power :?: Less weight :?: Turbo trans :?:

bettyc

03-04-2005, 02:29 PM

What's up with the teener?

Just that the winter got away from me and it never made it to the shop for those pesky winter upgrades/fixes. It's still sitting in the trailer where I parked it after the last event last year. I'm also considering whether to sell it and buy a 993 cup car instead of putting more $$$ into it.

Either way it should be ready for VIR. Afterall, Gary's car isn't going to be ready any time soon so if I want to drive it will have to be the 914.

This also brings up another issue. The trailer is going to be at the shop with the car so everyone that was counting on it for a nice, warm place to hide will have to join me in the classroom. We do have an excursion that can hold a fair amount of people if it gets really bad....[/i]

MBuck951

03-06-2005, 11:07 PM

If it's over 40F at the drivers meeting I'm going out on my MPSC. Under that, I'll switch to A032R's. Snow on the ground . . . I write "744" on my Jeep and go out!!!

BlackTalon

03-07-2005, 11:48 AM

Snow on the ground . . . I write "744" on my Jeep and go out!!!

It's starting to look like this may be the way to go... Everytime I check the forecast it gets worse. I guess I should stop checking it!

Trak Ratt

03-07-2005, 01:38 PM

It's starting to look like this may be the way to go... Everytime I check the forecast it gets worse. I guess I should stop checking it!

No worries Dave, if you get snowed at SP you can always come by and help me stuff the 2.5 ltr. into the ’84 beater. May not be the same as “driving” but definitely PCar related :wink:

BlackTalon

03-07-2005, 02:22 PM

Dave: If SP gets snowed out, I can help you this weekend. But you have to pay the 'expired safety inspection' fine if I get pulled over in the Talon again :roll:

If SP is a go, I can help you the weekend of March 19/ 20 (unless I sign up for the Autocross School -- which I really need to do!). And I'm open March 26/ 27, if you can wait that long.

April 2/3 is reserved for SpeedVision WC in St. Pete's :P

Trak Ratt

03-07-2005, 03:20 PM

Dave: have to pay the 'expired safety inspection, unless I sign up for the Autocross School, April 2/3 is reserved for SpeedVision :P

Thanks for volunteering! Don’t worry about me I can hire almost anyone to “drop” my motor for what your fine would be. Besides you need the seat time even if it’s only sitting in the car port. we’re both in white this year