Ridiculous Fines

[HateDCRoads]

So, 395 really backed up this morning so went through downtown Alexandria to get to work today. Made a left onto Rt. 1 North from Prince Street, and since I am still new to that neighborhood, took me a block to realize I was in an HOV lane (hard to see the diamond with the cars on the road in front of me, and I don't usually drive looking straight up for signs for obvious safety reasons).

By the time 1.2 blocks later that I start to move over, the 4 Alexandria cops stationed at the next light to raise revenue from suckers like me have pulled me over and written a ticket.

I called in to get the fine. Here are some of the other fines:

15 over in a school zone: $166
Running a stop sign: $91
Running a red light: $91
No registration or license plates: $86
No safety inspection $61

OK, so what would you expect a "first" HOV violation to cost?

Drumroll, please . . . .











$186. Yes, that's right, $186. So clearly, ending up in the HOV lane is WAY MORE DANGEROUS than blowing a red light, barreling through a stop sign, or cruising past a Kindergarten at 50MPH. I could actually run a red light with no tags and it would still be more OK than going 1 block in the HOV lane. This is beyond ridiculous. I had no idea Alexandria had elected Marion Barry as mayor.

So next time, I will turn and simply sit in the intersection blocking traffic, since that is clearly what our lawmakers, courts, and police would prefer us to do.

[HateDCRoads]

PS - can someone recommend an attorney? Given how ridiculously abusive this fine is, I don't see any drawback to hiring a lawyer.

[John Hallen]

Happy to hear Maryland is not the monopoly holder of idiotic traffic laws. Fines, fees, revenue enhancement, all just means for raising more money.

[Cliff Claven]

you will pay more for the lawyer than the amount of the fine. plus you will waste a day. and you will pay court costs when you lose. think of it as stepping in shit. quickly clean up the mess and move along. don't make it worse by falling down on the ground and rolling in the shit that you just stepped in.

[Trak Ratt]

Clearly you need a good stiff drink and some time to cool off! Just wait to drive home through Alex! Why not try limiting your lawlessness to what you can afford! Might want to show up and explain to judge that you’re new to the area. Who knows, maybe you get lucky.

I recently got one for a “stop” sign in FC. T-1 on the way to work. Your fines seems on par with them.

BTW what does DC charge for a similar “crime against humanity?”

[JmuRiz]

It's not a fine for danger, it's a deterrent fine.

[joep]

Time to change your handle! ;)

It's not a fine for danger, it's a deterrent fine.

x2 and you don't want multiples as they know how to multiply logarithmically!

Your best bet is to go plead your case alone as a DC resident on a strange road. You might get a break. You certainly won't get ahead by rolling in it any more though.

[Der ABT]

haha my friend got 3 of them....her cost for the second was around 600, the third was over 1000 and she lost her liscense.

not suprised you couldnt talk you way out of it, they usually just dont care for HOV, got my first a while back when i went out of my way to try and avoid it...shoulda just kept going as the exit i woulda taken had no cops on it of course...

the new thing in va is that you pay a rediculous court cost regardless if you win or not..making it not worth your time to go to court unless it carries points


Though with the HOV violation i would consider going...look at the cost if its your second offense...would me nice to have it off your record in case you just forget or get on 66 at the wrong time..forget daylight savings etc...

all in all sux...oh and dont drive above 90 in VA...JAILTIME BABY..

[markwemple]

It's not a fine for danger, it's a deterrent fine.

X3 plus MD's criminal/traffic system is much less draconian than VA. Don't know how you guys put up w/it.

For the headaches, just pay it and forget about it. Next one, hire a lawyer, or better yet, don't do it.

[John Clay]

It's not a fine for danger, it's a deterrent fine.

X4 - sort of like charging people who are late to autox's ;)

[HateDCRoads]

I will remember not to make them mistake again. The officer explained that I got the ticket because I went more than one block. So next time, I will sit in the lane with my blinker on waiting for someone to let me in, or just sit in the intersection. If 30 cars back up behind me, oh well. I am obeying the law.

[HateDCRoads]

It's not a fine for danger, it's a deterrent fine.

Also, I understand the deterrent concept. But it is totally out of proportion with the actual amount of harm done. And it was (trust me) an honest mistake. Very frustrating.

[HateDCRoads]

BTW, does anyone know if these roll off your license after two years like regular tickets, or do they stay with you forever like some form of government herpes?

[Trak Ratt]

BTW, does anyone know if these roll off your license after two years like regular tickets, or do they stay with you forever like some form of government herpes?Not herpes, but something akin... ;)

[HoodPin]

BTW, does anyone know if these roll off your license after two years like regular tickets, or do they stay with you forever like some form of government herpes?

If I recall how it works in MD, the points stay on for 2 years, in terms of accumulating for even bigger & better prizes. But once they're gone for accumulation purposes, the Insurance Co's (the generous sponsors of the show) can still see the tickets for either 5 or 7 total years. But then, if you happen to sit in front of the Judge (host of the show), I believe that they have access to your entire driving record back to day 1, for entertainment value of course. There used to be little reciprocity/overlap between States relative to ticket information, but much more is being shared nowadays. I would guess your "home" State probably has access to the most info.

[scott]

I would bet that it is not a moving violation type of ticket... like a parking ticket....

In Maryland...A violation of the HOV lane carries a $90 fine and one point against a driver’s license for first time offenders and for each subsequent offense. Additionally, if the driver’s violation of the HOV designation leads to a crash, the driver will be subject to three points. You may direct questions regarding the associated fine to the Maryland State Police at askatrooper@mdsp.org

In VA ..Tickets can be expensive. Here's a rundown of the HOV fines in Virginia:

First offense is a $125 fine;
Second offense is a $250 fine, plus three points;
Third offense is a $500 fine, plus three points;
Fourth offense is a $1,000 fine, plus three points.

[Cliff Claven]

not sure why a ticket for not having enough people in the car would have any impact on your insurance at all. but if you do it again won't the fine be larger next time?

[markwemple]

I'd check with their MVA as to points. There may not be any. For some reason, reciprocity between ajoining states is still random. Not as much as it used to be but I would assume the worst (hope for the best). FWIW, the points issue, if there are any, would be the reason to fight it. If you don't have points right now, you may be able to obtain a probation before judgment, so no active points, and no hit on your insurance.

[Landjet]

John, you might want to look into the new Smart Cord that Escort radar detectors is offering. You do have to have the radar detector, but the smart cord connects to your smart phone and is a citizen reporting network for where the cops are pursuing traffic actions. This would have probably been reported and you would have known that the cops were there waiting for you. You either spend money on tickets and lawyers, or you buy technology to avoid that. My detector has saved me from at least 50 tickets, yea, I did get 4 early on but haven't had any since, knock wood. Hey, you have a 911 now, you better be prepared.

[markwemple]

...as long as you know (caveat) that detectors are illegal in VA.

[Der ABT]

Also for detectors if your insurance finds out about the use of one the insurance goes up in VA (intent to speed) STUPID>>>>>>>>> they make you speed less as you jump on the brakes when it beep (after you check you mirrors)

HOV sticks with you for 5 years, second offense is 3 points.......why i was saying may be good to argue this one so you dont have to worry about it for 5 years.

[HateDCRoads]

I think the easy solution is just to move to Wyoming.

[Trak Ratt]

I think the easy solution is just to move to Wyoming.
:shock: Don't go without selling me your Carrera for cheap!!!!

[Seltzer]

PS - can someone recommend an attorney? Given how ridiculously abusive this fine is, I don't see any drawback to hiring a lawyer.

This is what happens when "city slickers" move to the "country" ;)

[HateDCRoads]

"I feel like the country dog in the city, if I stand still they screw me, if I run they bite me in the ass."

[Trak Ratt]

"I feel like the country dog in the city, if I stand still they screw me, if I run they bite me in the ass."
Sounds like they've taken the virgin out of Virginia for you boy-o ;)

[BMAN]

Sounds like they've taken the virgin out of Virginia for you boy-o ;)

Sure they didn't put the gina in for him?

[catron1]

Driving in Virginia is absolutely the worst for numerous reasons, not to mention the inquisition that you get for a tail light being out "God Forbid", or the 28 in a 25 ticket that I received a year ago.

When going from Maryland to Virginia it feels like children on tricycles can go faster than you can drive because of its gestapo presence.

Its safe, houses are beautiful, everyone has a BMW..yadda yadda..the cops make it unlivable for me personally.

[BlackTalon]

When going from Maryland to Virginia it feels like children on tricycles can go faster than you can drive because of its gestapo presence.
I fond this funny, as the cars always driving really slow on the highways in NoVa seem to have MD plates :lol:

[markwemple]

And the slow ones over here are Va tags.

[BlackTalon]

Not mine -- the MD cars seem to drove slow in MD, too!

[markwemple]

Maybe a beltway issue. The va cars here seem lost as well.

[catron1]

So I live in the District and have off and on for 13 years, grew up in Maryland and lived in Northern and Southern Virginia for a while. This is the conclusion that I have come to:

Virginia Drivers-
Much better city drivers than MD drivers HANDS DOWN! The real difference is that when on the Highways in Maryland they are scared to go above 55 mph, due I'm sure to the fact that if you speed in VA you get nailed.

Maryland Drivers-
God awful at driving in traffic, talk on the phone way too much while driving, and just plain suck at driving in the city. On the other hand when on the Highways the speed limit is just suggested, 55 mph means 70 and so on. It seams to work though, because no one gives a damn.

DC Drivers-
We are the worst at everything, and getting worse. Washingtonians are rubbish at driving...

[RENN 951]

DC Drivers-
We are the worst at everything, and getting worse. Washingtonians are rubbish at driving...

You do understand that the unlucky OP is a DC Driver?

:roll:

[BlackTalon]

You do understand that the unlucky OP is a DC Driver?
Didn't know that, but seeing him drive on the track should have tipped us off :twisted:

[catron1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by RENN 951
You do understand that the unlucky OP is a DC Driver?

yes, just venting..And the HOV lane thing is crap

[Der ABT]

I believe the OP is technically a VA driver now


Wow....MD drivers good on the highway....or anywhere is scary to me
virginians at least get out of the left lane 40-60 percent of the time...MD they brake check you or drive 15 under and look at you funny when you have to swing over 4 lanes to go in the new fast lante (Far Right).....every time i drive to baltimore im reminded why i couldnt live in md and drive...
though i do agree the understand how to speed...look on 83...avg speed of 85 gotta love that...until the 17car train behind a prius doing 43.7 in the left lane next to a tractor trailer...

i think it was just panorama that voted MD the countries worst drivers..maybe the nov issue

I think Der Vorganger might have to do a Poll.

[BMAN]

virginians at least get out of the left lane 40-60 percent of the time...MD they brake check you or drive 15 under and look at you funny when you have to swing over 4 lanes to go in the new fast lane

Agree with this. Marylanders simply don't move over to allow cars to pass which in some states will get you a ticket. It creates a lot tension and aggressive driving when slow drivers populate the left lanes.

I've driven from north of Baltimore to DC & N Va 5 days a week for the past 15 years. Roughly 36-40,000 miles a year of local driving with only 1 speeding ticket (66mph in a 55 :roll:), so I am not an aggressive hwy driver. The lack of common sense to allow traffic to flow safely is stunning and makes me more fearful on the roads than the track.

[John Clay]

I've always felt the calling to start a non-profit called Drive Right, Pass Left.

[Der ABT]

always wanted a programmable sign, like topgear had years ago. where i could type a message to the driver behind me...

or just a sticker..."KEEP RIGHT...as in ----->" to clarify what right means. figured that would get me into more trouble once pulled over though

[GM2006]

This might do the trick as you pass vehicles...

http://www.kustomxpress.com/Vehicle-Window-LED-Sign-p/ns-100-er-r.htm

[HateDCRoads]

Quote:
Originally Posted by RENN 951
You do understand that the unlucky OP is a DC Driver?

yes, just venting..And the HOV lane thing is crap

Yes. HOV lanes do not relieve congestion and create very dangerous speed differentials. They do however raise much revenue for the state.

I believe the OP is technically a VA driver now

I think Der Vorganger might have to do a Poll.

Yes, the OP is now a VA driver.

The lack of common sense to allow traffic to flow safely is stunning and makes me more fearful on the roads than the track.

Yes, the idiocy of regional drivers is amazing. My favorite is the person who speeds up to block you from changing lanes.

All part of the fun of living here.

[smdubovsky]

always wanted a programmable sign, like topgear had years ago. where i could type a message to the driver behind me...

Why do you need to message people behind you to move over? Are you the one doing 12under in the left lane? :D

HOV lanes do not relieve congestion
Only people who don't carpool believe that (or don't metro, ride busses, or some other form of mass transit.) You are right, they dont relieve congestion FOR NON CARPOOLERS. But carpooling out 66 is a HUGE time saver. Carpooling up 270 in the evening is a HUGE time saver. IIRC, Tony drives a vanpool on 270 every day, what are his thoughts? I don't get to carpool daily (no HOV lanes in MD on 29 or 95) but Im 110% for HOV lanes. The rest of the world gets mass transit. WTF don't self-entitled americans? Though I guess I've answered my own question there...

[RENN 951]

Yes, the OP is now a VA driver.

My apologies - I guess that explains why you were making a LEFT turn onto the Rte 1 and heading northbound. I thought that seemed strange if you were driving from DC.


In any event, the drop in taxes moving from DC to VA will more than compensate you for the cost of the unfortunate ticket! :)

[joep]

HOV on I-95 works quite well actually, but the lanes are physically separated. Accidents/left lane blockers don't affect the main lanes and visa versa.

Long Live the Sluggs!

[markwemple]

Why do you need to message people behind you to move over? Are you the one doing 12under in the left lane? :D


Only people who don't carpool believe that (or don't metro, ride busses, or some other form of mass transit.) You are right, they dont relieve congestion FOR NON CARPOOLERS. But carpooling out 66 is a HUGE time saver. Carpooling up 270 in the evening is a HUGE time saver. IIRC, Tony drives a vanpool on 270 every day, what are his thoughts? I don't get to carpool daily (no HOV lanes in MD on 29 or 95) but Im 110% for HOV lanes. The rest of the world gets mass transit. WTF don't self-entitled americans? Though I guess I've answered my own question there...
Complete agreement with Stephen, sorry Stephen. Just wish I had the opportunity to carpool (or use publiuc transit) to go to work.

[HateDCRoads]

Only people who don't carpool believe that (or don't metro, ride busses, or some other form of mass transit.) You are right, they dont relieve congestion FOR NON CARPOOLERS. But carpooling out 66 is a HUGE time saver. Carpooling up 270 in the evening is a HUGE time saver. IIRC, Tony drives a vanpool on 270 every day, what are his thoughts? I don't get to carpool daily (no HOV lanes in MD on 29 or 95) but Im 110% for HOV lanes. The rest of the world gets mass transit. WTF don't self-entitled americans? Though I guess I've answered my own question there...

I'm just bitter. And unfortunately, carpooling is not an option for me because as an entrepreneur, I don't work 9-5 hours, so finding someone to carpool with is very difficult. And Metro isn't a real option because a) our offices are in Georgetown and b) the shuttles only run for 9-5. So driving is still faster.

[smdubovsky]

I'm just bitter. And unfortunately, carpooling is not an option for me..

Hehe. Yeah I figured (Id be mad too). I was just poking you:) (though I stand behind my comments on HOV even if it does mean Mark agrees w/ me.)

[Cliff Claven]

That's why we should have the option of buying the right to use the hov lanes. It's not right that entrepreneurs should be penalized.

[HateDCRoads]

Hehe. Yeah I figured (Id be mad too). I was just poking you:) (though I stand behind my comments on HOV even if it does mean Mark agrees w/ me.)

And that's what Dorki is about, bringing people together. Yeah sure, they're socially dysfunctional, psychotic people. But still people.

That's why we should have the option of buying the right to use the hov lanes. It's not right that entrepreneurs should be penalized.

That's sarcasm, right?

[joep]

And that's what Dorki is about, bringing people together. Yeah sure, they're socially dysfunctional, psychotic people. But still people.



That's sarcasm, right?

I thought it was the poetry? ;)

Actually there's just no good car pooling options between your two points A to B. Maybe there folks on Craig's list looking for it, but frankly we hate entrepreneurs in the HOV lanes who want to pay for it. The point is to reduce the # of cars, not necessary the time spent driving, but its a secondary benefit.

Pick up a slug or get off my HOV. :lol:

[BlackTalon]

Kinda funny the roads here are so congested, yet Fairfax and Mo Co both aggressively court companies to relocate here from the west coast. Somehow we will be able to absorb all the new peeps and get them to/ from work, the store, etc. without making traffic worse :roll:

[Trak Ratt]

In any event, the drop in taxes moving from DC to VA will more than compensate you for the cost of the unfortunate ticket! :)This year :twisted:

Kinda funny the roads here are so congested, yet Fairfax and Mo Co both aggressively court companies to relocate here from the west coast. Somehow we will be able to absorb all the new peeps and get them to/ from work, the store, etc. without making traffic worse :roll:Now that's sacasem!

I'm with Cliffy; the gap between the haves and have not's benifits should include our daily commute :cool:

[John Clay]

In any event, the drop in taxes moving from DC to VA will more than compensate you for the cost of the unfortunate ticket! :)

That isn't necessarily true - I'm an audit/accounting (not tax) guy, but I'm pretty sure that VA resident + owner of pass-through DC company can = bad tax result.

[markwemple]

Back to the beginning, ya paying or going to court?

[HateDCRoads]

I am just going to pay it. Unlikely to catch a break, and since I (unfashionably) work for a living, spending a day at work is a better use of my time than a day in court.

And next time I'll just block traffic. Lesson learned.

[RENN 951]

That isn't necessarily true - I'm an audit/accounting (not tax) guy, but I'm pretty sure that VA resident + owner of pass-through DC company can = bad tax result.

Well, now you've done it - Dr K is going to have to prescribe some strong antidepressants for our entrepreneur! :cry:

I am just going to pay it. Unlikely to catch a break, and since I (unfashionably) work for a living, spending a day at work is a better use of my time than a day in court.

And next time I'll just block traffic. Lesson learned.

Sorry for the misfortune, John - time for a new screen name? HateVARoads ?

[BlackTalon]

Well, now you've done it - Dr K is going to have to prescribe some strong antidepressants for our entrepreneur! :cry:
I though Dr K was an eternal optomist -- always looking up :lol:

[markwemple]

ReallyHateVARoads

[BlackTalon]

You obviously have never attacked the climbing esses leading from the Memorial Bridge to Route 110 South flat-out in a Ford Escort station wagon.

:cool:

[markwemple]

His screen name, not mine ;)

[Cliff Claven]

That's sarcasm, right?

no. it's about economic efficiency. the roads are a public resource, held in trust by the government for the benefit of all. paying for the right to use the faster or HOV lanes would help to ensure that the resource is used most wisely to achieve the highest benefit, and could also raise money for spending on roads or education or healthcare for the good of all.

additionally, it's about fairness. not everyone can or should have a job with set hours and accordingly not everyone is able to car pool; moreover not everyone is able to afford a prius or similar high-priced hybrid vehicle. it's only fair that those who don't have the option of car pooling and don't have the luxury of buying fancy high end hybrids should instead have the option of buying the right to use this limited public resource same as others.

[Dr K]

...or a physician heading to the emergency room for something very urgent! :shock:

[HateDCRoads]

Well, now you've done it - Dr K is going to have to prescribe some strong antidepressants for our entrepreneur! :cry:



Sorry for the misfortune, John - time for a new screen name? HateVARoads ?

Actually, I still rather like VA roads. They're paved, for starters. The only thing I don't like is a fine that is ludicrous relative to the damage caused. I could appreciate a fine like that for reckless driving or running a red light, but not for going an extra 0.2 blocks in the HOV lane. But it is what it is. Like I said, I will pay more attention next time and be less worried about being courteous to the other drivers (no one else is anyway).

As for the idea of buying into HOV lanes, as a committed free marketeer, I would certainly support that - and MD is doing that with Route 200, to their credit. Actually, come to think of it, that's what I did yesterday! But, lemme tell ya, it was a bad deal!

[Dr K]

Why MD-200 has a 55 MPH speed limit is beyond me. Where it hits I-95, closer to DC than the rest of MD-200, I-95 is 65 MPH. But we take 200 just to drive traffic-free even though it's not faster most of the time we take it.

[Baywatch]

Anyone get busted on MD - 200 yet ?

Agreed, 55 MPH is ludicrous